Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15264
Yes Gary, that, my conclusion too.
Reckon because of very low D4 use (COVID) and extended constant time on Ctek, that’s what’s been causing the issue.
I’ll just be using the charger for short/sharp charges as is required, rather than leaving it on constantly....... always on the road less travelled 🚧
6th Feb 2021 11:47 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
Hi ronp
Just re-read from the beginning. Interesting that the constant trickle charge with the MSX 7 didn't do the job.
I don't have the facility with mine to do that, so just do a top up charge routinely at present every 3 weeks or so, but now you've mentioned this issue, I wouldn't do it that way anyway. Perhaps the tow socket vs the direct + and chassis - connections makes a difference.
CheersGary
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Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Feb 2021 12:15 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15264
After reading some of the connection recommendations on this thread (eg live to battery and negative to chassis), I dug out the ctek instructions and it recommends connection direct to both battery terminals.
So after that experience I will now just keep the ctek and use it as a top up charger for my little summer ‘sports’ motor (or for my wife’s car when she leaves the interior lights on for days and flattens her battery ), but now I won’t be putting the ctek anywhere near the D4.
I reckon the D4 is too intelligent for it.
Will just make sure I get out in the D4 for a drive at least every couple of weeks to keep things spinning over....... always on the road less travelled 🚧
7th Feb 2021 12:46 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
I have the CTEK MSX 7 and my instructions , quite clearly state that if the battery is in the vehicle, to use the vehicle chassis as the negative (see the instructions below I have just extracted from the online manual)
I'm wondering whether tow electrics do not connect negative to chassis and therefore the battery management system is not aware of the charge ?
Here's the instructions from page 6:
For batteries mounted inside a
vehicle
1. Connect the red clamp to the battery's positive pole.
2. Connect the black clamp to the
vehicle chassis remote from the fuel
pipe and the battery.
3. Connect the charger to the wall
socket
4. Disconnect the charger from the wall
socket before disconnecting the battery
5. Disconnect the black clamp before
the red clamp.
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15264
..... and if you look at the pictures (P6 from the manual) it’s totally at odds in what it says.
No wonder the D4 gets confused!
I just looked at the pics ( must learn to read! ) and fitted my “comfort connection” per the bottom image.
Click image to enlarge
...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
7th Feb 2021 2:30 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8228
Gary_P wrote:
I have the CTEK MSX 7 and my instructions , quite clearly state that if the battery is in the vehicle, to use the vehicle chassis as the negative (see the instructions below I have just extracted from the online manual)
I'm wondering whether tow electrics do not connect negative to chassis and therefore the battery management system is not aware of the charge ?
Here's the instructions from page 6:
For batteries mounted inside a
vehicle
1. Connect the red clamp to the battery's positive pole.
2. Connect the black clamp to the
vehicle chassis remote from the fuel
pipe and the battery.
3. Connect the charger to the wall
socket
4. Disconnect the charger from the wall
socket before disconnecting the battery
5. Disconnect the black clamp before
the red clamp.
All manuals (both car and battery charger) will tell you to do it like this for one reason only, safety. Whist a battery is being charged it give of an explosive(hydrogen) gas, if the clamps create a spark particularly in an enclosed area like under the bonnet the explosion can be sufficient to blind anybody and blow them off their feet and cover everything with sulphuric acid, the battery case itself can be totally destroyed.
I experienced this explosion in my teens from a hd tractor battery that had been on charge all night, if it had not been for the fact there was a cattle water trough nearby that I could jump in and wash my eyes I would have been at least scared for life and maybe blinded.
This is another big plus for the Ctek tow bar electric plug in adapter, it completely eliminates this happening.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
7th Feb 2021 3:22 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
Yes understood, and sorry to hear about your serious incident. In addition to safety, the information supplied on this forum suggests that the Battery Management System also requires charging using the chassis as Negative in order for it to be aware of the charge.
So given ronps issues of trickle charging using the tow electrics and getting a 'low battery' message, I'm interested to know whether charging using the tow electrics connection use a chassis negative ?
CheersGary
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Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Feb 2021 3:44 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8228
I use the tow plug for charging all the time around once a fortnight in winter both on D3(around 10 years) and D4 3 years, I’ve never had any known problems although I must admit the warning does seem to be on a short fuse with the D4.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
7th Feb 2021 5:57 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
I've only ever used the under-bonnet method of charging using chassis as negative and never had the low battery warning, even just before I replaced the main battery. Maybe just luck?Gary
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Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Feb 2021 6:55 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15264
Gary_P wrote:
......So given ronps issues of trickle charging using the tow electrics and getting a 'low battery' message.....
Just for the record, my charging wasn’t via the towing electrics, but from the ctek “comfort connection” using the battery connection eyelets.
Also, both my main and auxiliary batteries had been renewed within the last year....... always on the road less travelled 🚧
7th Feb 2021 7:04 pm
Timbo1975
Member Since: 25 Nov 2019
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 44
Gary_P wrote:
I've only ever used the under-bonnet method of charging using chassis as negative and never had the low battery warning, even just before I replaced the main battery. Maybe just luck?
That is because you have the BMS in circuit the way you have connected the charger so it knows whats going on .2015 SDV6 Commercial
7th Feb 2021 8:25 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
Thanks for that ronp. So perhaps the issue was trickle charging not using the chassis for negative and the battery managements system not registering the charge properly?
CheersGary
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Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Feb 2021 8:26 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15264
Think I’ve got to disagree with you on that one Gary.
From what I gather from the wise M3DPO’s post below .... it’s not HOW you connect to the battery, but it’s the potential consequences of WHERE you connect to (e.g. direct to both battery terminals).
M3DPO wrote:
Whist a battery is being charged it give of an explosive(hydrogen) gas, if the clamps create a spark particularly in an enclosed area like under the bonnet the explosion can be sufficient to blind anybody and blow them off their feet and cover everything with sulphuric acid, the battery case itself can be totally destroyed.
...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
7th Feb 2021 8:38 pm
Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
Fair enough. , however as Timbo has said above and others have advised in different places on this forum, the chassis negative connection ensures charging occurs through the BMS electronics, so the car is aware of the charge that you have added.Gary
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Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
7th Feb 2021 9:44 pm
charlietortoise
Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 511
Still at it
Charged the car on the ctek today. All lighs lit, full charge. Got in the car and bing, battery low start engine. It is just weird![/i]Discovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch 😂
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
), but now I won’t be putting the ctek anywhere near the D4.
, however as Timbo has said above and others have advised in different places on this forum, the chassis negative connection ensures charging occurs through the BMS electronics, so the car is aware of the charge that you have added.
