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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 13018
  
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when we had them on football pitches nearby a few years back, the locals shot at them with air rifles until they left. Well, it is Salford. What did they expect ?
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 6th May 2021 6:16 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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| Re: Police fail to take action against travellers racing on road |
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NJSS wrote:Over the Bank Holiday weekend the A33 near Micheldever was closed for the majority of Saturday and Sunday because travellers were illegally racing horses & traps over the main road.....
I am appalled by Hampshire Constabulary failing to act.
Can you show me where it is illegal to ride a pony and trap on a highway?  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 6th May 2021 8:22 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14387
  
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It isn't, but it is illegal to race...... New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
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| 6th May 2021 9:20 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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Can you show me where it states it is illegal to 'race' a pony and trap on the highway? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 6th May 2021 9:34 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
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Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847.
Quote:28 Penalty on persons committing any of the offences herein named.
Every person who in any street, to the obstruction, annoyance, or danger of the residents or passengers, commits any of the following offences, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale] for each offence, or, in the discretion of the justice before whom he is convicted, may be committed to prison, there to remain for a period not exceeding fourteen days, (that is to say,)] [...] Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle:[...]
Then there is the possible animal welfare issue of racing a horse on tarmac. Not likely to be good for the horse. But that would be a separate issue. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 6th May 2021 10:07 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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My overriding point is the threshold for demonstrating an offence is being committed is very high ...similarly a peloton of cyclists travelling over 30 mph in a 30 limit or at 2 mph in a 40 mph limit. The police would find it difficult to pin circumstances against laws IMO. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 6th May 2021 10:28 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 6th May 2021 10:20 pm |
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Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1108
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But this wasn't 'just' ponies and racing traps travelling on the roads in styles that could be described as racing was it?
It was hundreds of people gathering on the carriageways, standing and cheering, blocking them. Vehicles parked on and along the carriageway impeding the progress of vehicles wanting to use the carriageways.
This dashcam footage shows the chaos..
And it was organised, as much as anything ever is for these events.
Any hint of another needs to be firmly managed or arrangements made to assist those who wish to carry out this type of event do so in a safer and more appropriate place. Jim
2014 Discovery 4 XXV SDV6 Causeway Grey
2016 Discovery 4 HSE Lux SDV6 Loire Blue - now gone
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| 6th May 2021 10:28 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
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Indeed so. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 6th May 2021 10:31 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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Not quite ...people parking on the sides of an unrestricted road is not illegal ...neither are pedestrians in the road illegal ...even if you wanted to chase obstruction then the lawful authority or excuse is wide-ranging and can include the reasonable exercise of the right to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 6th May 2021 10:42 pm |
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Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1108
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I agree with your summary of the relevant legislation there DG but are you suggesting that you are agreeable with the A33 becoming a venue for this type of activity whenever anyone who wants to undertake it feels like organising a meet?
I think that the other users of the A34, Road Hauliers, travelling public, probably the Emergency Services and many other sections of society who rely upon the A34 to carry on their lawfull (and essential) business have to endure obstructions, risk of striking spectators and disruption to lawful activity for people to express themselves freely wherever and whenever they wish?
Freedoms should never be curtailed but some element of facilitation is necessary to allow all of us in society to go about our lives and business unhindered as far as possible.
Strikes me that without some adherence to democratically delivered rules of the road we all won't have the same quality of life we all want.
Maybe I am selfish in wanting to deny those who blocked the A34 with their racing event but personally those who can't engage with society to arrange times and places for events in a manner that minimises the disruption and risk to others are the selfish ones in my view.
Maybe they could come and race up and down outside your place instead?!
Jim
2014 Discovery 4 XXV SDV6 Causeway Grey
2016 Discovery 4 HSE Lux SDV6 Loire Blue - now gone
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| 7th May 2021 7:11 am |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
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I bet that if we organised a soap box race on a sloping road, and did what the travellers are doing, we'd have Plod all over us telling us off. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 7th May 2021 7:42 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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My point isn't necessarily in defence of those racing their ponies, more so the inability of the police to act where there is a lack of legal redress. Speed limits do not apply to non mechanically propelled vehicles and whether it is horses, cyclists or pedestrians, what is the limit of their use of a road? There isn't one.
They could potentially apply for an order to ban or restrict such activity on certain dates or charge with wanton or furious driving or racing if there was a collision but other than that the police can do little about it.
While I am fortunate not to have pony and traps running outside my door, many cyclists who think they are participating in the Olympics running through the village are debilitating for many other road users. What will the police do about them....nothing, because it isn't illegal. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 7th May 2021 7:57 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10798
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It has been reported that:-
One man was arrested on suspicion of drug driving
Three cars were seized - and -
Management at Crowne Plaza Basingstoke confirm that up 30 rooms were booked by guests attending the event, they distorted their reasons for travelling, and booked through multiple website.
Quote:"On the evening of Friday 30th, the senior manger on duty implemented a planned closure of the bar when it became clear that it would no longer be possible to maintain Covid-19 protocols. The plan was to include police presence but their attendance was delayed and the hotel team effected this closure with a two man security team before two police officers were able to respond to our call.
"The management team decided not to reopen the bar on Saturday 1st May and informed the police of this decision in line with the agreed plan. With evident strain on police resources, security arrangements were increased and hotel availability remained closed with only 22% of rooms occupied."
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| 7th May 2021 8:24 am |
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Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1108
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Law AND Order....
Without order there is chaos, even with or without laws.
Those who live disorderly lives can be anti social in the extreme.
No doubt this debate will reappear, rumble on and reignite.
Good to be able to have the debate though!
Good morning all.. Jim
2014 Discovery 4 XXV SDV6 Causeway Grey
2016 Discovery 4 HSE Lux SDV6 Loire Blue - now gone
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| 7th May 2021 11:16 am |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8225
 
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Is it any different from closing roads for a cycle race?- regular occurrence in summer around us. Neither pony and traps or cyclists are insured so it just as well the roads are closed, not that I am in favour of either when it’s done  It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 7th May 2021 1:24 pm |
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