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pko

Member Since: 06 Apr 2006
Location: usually in the pub
Posts: 398

Looking at the photo on Jords comment, they all seem to be young men who should man up and stay to fight for their country, not run away. never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly

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23rd Aug 2022 11:02 am

al cope

Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10353

Can anyone explain why so many want to come here ( as opposed to staying in any of the other European countries they have travelled through). It can’t be because a few if them speak English. Our benefits system is often cited as being abused, so is it better than could be obtained in any of the European countries they’ve come through. If it is then surely limiting this in some way and getting the message out that benefits are harder to come by in the uk than elsewhere would mean less would want to come here.

But is that drives folks to want to be here

I have heard being safe from what is happening in their own country, but they are safe once crossed into Europe so that doesn’t wash.

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23rd Aug 2022 11:05 am

Russell

Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564

LT wrote:
If you were in a position where all the possessions you had were those you were wearing and carrying, you might want to keep your mobile phone. Wouldn’t you?

May be but when you see them walking up the beach in designer clothes and the best mobile phones money can buy, then you start to question what they do and don't have. MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
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23rd Aug 2022 11:16 am

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14409

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Zambezi Silver

pko wrote:
Looking at the photo on Jords comment, they all seem to be young men who should man up and stay to fight for their country, not run away.

On the flip side they could be men at risk of persecution, have been tortured, are the wrong religion, have fought against an oppressive regime and lost. There could be so many reasons why.

Sadly, ‘manning up’ and fighting for his country might well be why they have come here. Just think of the Afghani men left behind that worked for the UK or NATO whose lives are in significant danger.

Migration and asylum are complex issues. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)

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23rd Aug 2022 12:14 pm

leeds

Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4314

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Landmark LE Auto Yulong White

Maybe a bit of perspective is needed

UNHCR figures

89 million people displaced world wide. More then UK population

27 million people are refugees worldwide, equivalent to about 40% of UK population

Turkey has 3.9 million refugees or about 4.6% of population

Germany has 2 million refugees or about 2.4% of population

Poland has 1.2 million refugees or about 3% of population

France has 543,000 refugees or about0.84% of population

UK has 174,500 refugees or about 0.257% of population

Figures taken from UNHCR. Yes those figures might be out of date a bit as with Ukraine etc figures are fluid but it gives some perspective to refugees in UK

Quote:

Until the start of the war in Ukraine, Europe — with the exception of Germany — had comparatively smaller numbers of refugees. Poland has, however, opened its borders to fleeing Ukrainians and there are almost 1.2 million Ukrainians registered for protection in the country.

By contrast there were just 137,078 refugees in the UK in the middle of last year, and since February it has offered refuge to 37,400 Ukrainian

Quote:

According to the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees UNHCR data, as of 19 July 2022, close to 6 million individual refugees from Ukraine were recorded across Europe – a large majority being women and children – with the largest figures in countries neighbouring Ukraine

I.e. UK has taken in 0.6% of the Ukraine refugees!

So get things in perspective!

Farage etc lied to UK publlic and some of the daily rags just peddle his lies etc.

Brendan

23rd Aug 2022 12:34 pm

lynalldiscovery

Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Metropolis LE Auto Bonatti Grey

leeds wrote:
Now who was it said they do not care who is the next U.K. PM as long as they are white and Christian?

Now I do not pretend to be Christian but I am sure the Christian holy bible says something about helping strangers in need.

One has to admire the lack of Christian spirit being demonstrated here whilst wanting a Christian as the next U.K. PM

Brendan

I assume you are doing something/anything to help?

23rd Aug 2022 12:35 pm

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14409

I’ve suggested a solution, do you have one? D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)

New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold

Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)

Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)

No longer the Old Buses original owner

231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
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IID BT
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23rd Aug 2022 12:36 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23829

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini Black

Russell wrote:
LT wrote:
If you were in a position where all the possessions you had were those you were wearing and carrying, you might want to keep your mobile phone. Wouldn’t you?

May be but when you see them walking up the beach in designer clothes and the best mobile phones money can buy, then you start to question what they do and don't have.

I’m not sure those “designer” clothes are the genuine item. If you had to choose just one set of clothes, what would you wear, your best or worst ones?

Would you rather they were shoeless and clothed in rags?

I’m not saying this isn’t a serious concern or that everyone who crosses the channel is a genuine asylum seeker, but statistics are showing that the majority are.

So let’s not prejudge any of them until their cases have been heard. They are all fellow human beings, who for whatever reasons have left behind their homes, family and friends, pets and possessions etc. I can’t imagine how that must feel.

Lets show them some compassion and not fall into the Daily Mail trap.

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Last edited by LT on 23rd Aug 2022 1:17 pm. Edited 2 times in total

23rd Aug 2022 12:39 pm

lynalldiscovery

Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274

pko wrote:
Looking at the photo on Jords comment, they all seem to be young men who should man up and stay to fight for their country, not run away.

I said the exact same thing a few years back, all the incoming young 'boys' had beards, was not so many years ago they would have gotten a white feather from the village elders.

Back then I got shot down in flames, and here we are 10s of thousands of scroungers draining an already drained economy.

Simply put, right or wrong we could no afford it back then, and we certainly cannot afford it now.

23rd Aug 2022 12:40 pm

lynalldiscovery

Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274

Moo wrote:
I’ve suggested a solution, do you have one?

I assume you were quoting me?

If so you wont like my solution, but I bet you a pint of ale if you ask any working man/woman/Paye sucker what they would do and it would be along the same lines.

23rd Aug 2022 12:45 pm

leeds

Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4314

lynalldiscovery wrote:
leeds wrote:
Now who was it said they do not care who is the next U.K. PM as long as they are white and Christian?

Now I do not pretend to be Christian but I am sure the Christian holy bible says something about helping strangers in need.

One has to admire the lack of Christian spirit being demonstrated here whilst wanting a Christian as the next U.K. PM

Brendan

I assume you are doing something/anything to help?

Unfortunately I do not get a vote on who will be the next UK PM. If I did I would not based my decision on racist beliefs. I want the best person for the job in hand, skin colour and religion would be irrelevant to me, however some other people have racist attitudes.

I do not pretend to be a Christian, however I have helped by funding the education of orphans in India, loans to small business people in places such as the Philippines (hand up rather then hand out) yes have donated to various disaster appeals including Ukraine. Only small things but as that slogan goes every little helps.

I am not a Christian but probably have more of a humane attitude then those who want a UK PM to be Christian. I will help where I can and as a UK taxpayer I want the UK to help when and where it can.

Brendan

23rd Aug 2022 1:11 pm

Trailered Movements

Member Since: 16 Jan 2020
Location: East/West Sussex Coast Borders
Posts: 1200

2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial Auto Sumatra Black

As these 'migrants' pay quite large amounts to people trafficers, the majority are not poor.

There are those in our own society who are financially worse off and should be our priority, not those paying to come here and claim poverty etc.

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23rd Aug 2022 2:51 pm

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14409

The problem is people make sweeping statements and judgments without understanding or knowing the individuals situation or even how they fund their travel.

Yes, some will be economic migrants but others will be escaping persecution etc. In all the pictures you've seen, can you differentiate those that economic migrants and those that have escaped torture?

Also, they get almost no economic help when in the UK.

The issue is too complex for simplistic solutions. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)

New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold

Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)

Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)

No longer the Old Buses original owner

231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control

23rd Aug 2022 3:14 pm

RRSTDV8

Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13550

Trailered Movements wrote:
As these 'migrants' pay quite large amounts to people trafficers, the majority are not poor.

There are those in our own society who are financially worse off and should be our priority, not those paying to come here and claim poverty etc.

Dave

The numbers of people in the UK who are poor is a domestic political issue and has nothing to do with choosing, or otherwise, to help others.

That we have so many people struggling in this country is sad indictment of the political choices made for decades.

That we seemingly want to throw people back in to the sea is a sad indictment of the British people. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"

23rd Aug 2022 3:19 pm

JordsDisco

Member Since: 22 May 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1616

2008 Discovery 3 3.0 SDV6 GS Manual Santorini Black

Simply put, coming to the UK illegally, no matter what the reason, has to stop.

There is a system to which you apply for asylum, if it’s not fit for purpose you change it.

I don’t have a problem with genuine cases, I do with others, which I believe is far more than most of us appreciate.

Coming across the Chanel in an inflatable shouldn’t be seen as an action with no consequences for both those availing themselves of the service of traffickers nor the traffickers themselves.

Just my penny worth.

23rd Aug 2022 7:26 pm