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simon_arch1
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 502
  
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| Hayman Reese replacement tow hitch |
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Back on the original topic... received this from HR yesterday:
"We finished the towbar yesterday and it passed ADR testing with flying colours. The design was different to the original concept I discussed with you. This new bar is an exposed bar and will be powdercoated for additional durability. We could not fit a bar in behind the rear bumper skin without compromising access to the rear tyre and requiring the use of the tow hook and require significant bumper modifications (cutting). There are simply only millimetres of room to work with, because the bar is rated to 3500kg this is the logical solution keeping the spare tyre accessible. As a result we have a bullet-proof towbar, designed and tested within ADR specification and whilst departure angle may be reduced, ground clearance has been improved. The towbar can be installed and removed in no time at all, requiring no bumper removal and is fasten by 8 bolts. For anyone serious about towing and or using weight distribution systems - this is the solution; those who want to go OFF-off road the bar can be easily removed. I am interested to know your thoughts?"
Pics are at:
- http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/displayima...&pos=1
I won't pass comment yet... 
cheers,
Simon D3 - Buckingham Blue, SE, TDV6, 06 model; chipped; underbody armour; Mickey Thompson ATZ 275/65-18 AND MAXXIS Bighorn muddies; rear wheel carrier from 4x4intelligence.com; iPOD aux connection! GME 3200 UHF - aerial mounted on wheel carrier  ; LR roof rails/cross bars; Autosafe cargo barrier, Safari Snorkel; Traxide - aux battery; ARB bull bar with Tigerz11 winch; Lightforce 240 XGT driving lights (mitchell bros tow hitch to come)
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 16th Jun 2007 11:39 pm |
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catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
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I'll stick to the original unit I think
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| 17th Jun 2007 2:04 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
 
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I will. 
looks like geat improvement over the LR one.
Looks the right height for a normal van or trailer.
But still too low for an off road hitch?
Do they have a price on it yet? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 17th Jun 2007 2:14 am |
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LeighW
D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
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Wot cat says.
I am very disappointed...
I thought the HR people understood we were seeking a much less obtrusive design. I even pointed them to Rob Bruce's solution.
Admittedly there isn't a lot of space to play with but the rear crossmember is NATO strength and therefore I thought an engineer/designer could come up with something closer to the BRS towhitch design used by Baben (and I had my hopes up when Simon showed a sketch, presumably from HR).
Cost? About a metre of expensively curved bar, brackets fixed back to who knows where, a much lower hitch than hoped, etc. You can guess at nothing less than $500. My guesstimate only.
As they say in the classics, back to the drawing board. Now where is Rob Bruce's direct number when you need it?
Leigh LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
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| 17th Jun 2007 2:37 am |
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simon_arch1
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 502
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My thoughts exactly. I have fed back that it certainly doesn't meet most peoples expectations, and nothing like the original HR sketches...
Access to the spare wheel of course wouldn't be a problem if everyone bought a wheel carrier 
I don't know why they can't have shorter arms on it so that it sits under bumper further?
I'll go out and see them one day this week me thinks.
cheers,
Simon D3 - Buckingham Blue, SE, TDV6, 06 model; chipped; underbody armour; Mickey Thompson ATZ 275/65-18 AND MAXXIS Bighorn muddies; rear wheel carrier from 4x4intelligence.com; iPOD aux connection! GME 3200 UHF - aerial mounted on wheel carrier ; LR roof rails/cross bars; Autosafe cargo barrier, Safari Snorkel; Traxide - aux battery; ARB bull bar with Tigerz11 winch; Lightforce 240 XGT driving lights (mitchell bros tow hitch to come)
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| 17th Jun 2007 3:22 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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So how many are interested in a tow hitch that works?
I'll speak to the 4x4 guys again and see what they can do. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 17th Jun 2007 4:42 am |
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catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
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why can't they just make a cut down version of the LR one. I'll photochop a cut down version of the LR one later to show what I mean when the wife lets me clock off for the day.
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| 17th Jun 2007 4:47 am |
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jeff66
Member Since: 03 Feb 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 29
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If the new hitch is higher. How much higher is it over the standard HR one. That is the height of the square base where the Hitch fits into to the ground. ATACAMA SAND SE ,V6 PETROL, AUTO ,WINDOW TINT ,SIDE STEPS, SPORTS ROOF RACKS, ARB BULLBAR, KAYMAR REAR BUMPER TWIN TYRE, HID SPOTLIGHTS, TX3540 RADIO, ICOM 400PRO, GPS, DUAL BATTERY SYSTEM, MITCHELL BROS TOW HITCH.
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| 17th Jun 2007 4:52 am |
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Martin Krutli
Member Since: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 229
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H'mm yes, I don't think they've nailed it at all. Agree with the comments re off-road trailer, still seems to be too low (although that could be easily rectified with a different tongue). It looks like it will significantly reduce departure angle as well.
I wonder why they can't design and produce something along the line of Baben's SA solution? Although perhaps needing a bit of refinement, that seems to be a far more useful approach.
Unfortunately, if they have already been through the process of getting it ADR certified I can't see them being too interested in going back to the drawing board again. Then if all their potential market were unhappy....?
Cheers,
Martin
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| 17th Jun 2007 7:13 am |
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LeighW
D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
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Martin Krutli wrote:H'mm yes, I don't think they've nailed it at all... ...Then if all their potential market were unhappy....?
Or if no one bought one due to it's inadequate design.
Leigh LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
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| 17th Jun 2007 8:02 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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My 4x4 guy is quite keen on making on but the cost of the first two will be about a grand. He has come up with a design with a flat plate attaching to the underside and bolted on. Most of the load will be taken by the recovery point and will have a standard tongue fitting with a couple of recovery points in the gussets; Lots a neater concept than the SA one and at a higher point for an off-road trailer. The first ones will be oxy cut but the final will be laser cut and power coated.
I will post a picture when he sends me some neater concept drawings. It will not affect the exit angle at all. : Don't know how it will go with the reversing sensors until we have one made.
It will cost $1000 to produce the first two. One will need to be destroyed in testing. The other will be tested on vehicle.
So we need to know if there is a market.
Two questions:
1. How does the SA one fit to the recovery eye, do you need to remove the trailer sockets to get the bolt in?
2. Does the RRS have the same fitting arrangement as the D3, ie will this hitch fit both? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 20th Jun 2007 6:15 am |
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simon_arch1
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 502
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Caverd3,
The RRS system is the same as the D3.
Market wise - there is definitely a market - I even convinced Hayman Reese that they should develop another unit that is recessed and has no impact on departure angle... see below, but basically, there initial design brief came from caravanners who needed to use a load distribution hitch:
"When towing caravans with a aggregate mass close to the vehicle's maximum i.e. 2500-3300kg the use of a weight distribution hitch (WDH)is in most cases, essential. The Westfalia styled towbar as a factory accessories on the Disco 3 uses a locking bolt to locate and lock the hitch receiver into it's integrated towbar. As a weight distribution hitch transfers weight through the hitch receiver it creates a different tensional load to a standard towbar coupling. The current LR system can handle downward load but is not designed to work with the upward load generated by a WDH. You can see a picture of a failed unit attached in Dec 06.
Participating at the national caravan and camping shows I spoke with numerous caravanners about the Disco 3 seeking a reliable solution. As previous Discoveries were excellent caravan tow vehicles. This R2387 is what we have now developed. A different recessed version can still be commercialised, and I would require a vehicle for testing.
I look forward to working with you on the development of this."
This makes some sense - though I would have thought the one system could have it covered, rather than 2...
So - HR are still working on this too. Now - doesn't mean that your local 4x4 guy can't come up with a better system, cheaper, or ...
cheers,
Simon D3 - Buckingham Blue, SE, TDV6, 06 model; chipped; underbody armour; Mickey Thompson ATZ 275/65-18 AND MAXXIS Bighorn muddies; rear wheel carrier from 4x4intelligence.com; iPOD aux connection! GME 3200 UHF - aerial mounted on wheel carrier ; LR roof rails/cross bars; Autosafe cargo barrier, Safari Snorkel; Traxide - aux battery; ARB bull bar with Tigerz11 winch; Lightforce 240 XGT driving lights (mitchell bros tow hitch to come)
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| 20th Jun 2007 11:56 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Unless we know there are five or six people who will buy the unit it is not worth investing.
If HR is definately going to produce one then it may not be worth the efort.
However given what they have produced so far it could be not suitable.
Did they say they will definately produce an off road hitch? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 20th Jun 2007 2:39 pm |
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LeighW
D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
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simon_arch1 wrote:Caverd3,
The RRS system is the same as the D3.
Market wise - there is definitely a market - I even convinced Hayman Reese that they should develop another unit that is recessed and has no impact on departure angle... ...a weight distribution hitch transfers weight through the hitch receiver it creates a different tensional load to a standard towbar coupling. The current LR system can handle downward load but is not designed to work with the upward load generated by a WDH. You can see a picture of a failed unit attached in Dec 06...
Simon
So now it is clear why the WDH is not suitable for use with the LR hitch (as mentioned in the manual).
caverD3 wrote:Unless we know there are five or six people who will buy the unit it is not worth investing.
If HR is definately going to produce one... ...Did they say they will definately produce an off road hitch?
In light of what Simon says above about his discussions with HR, let's see what they come up with and if it still doesn't meet the needs of a number of enthusiasts for a true off-road hitch, then caverD3 should reactivate his 4WD guy's interest in developing (and certifying) the type that is required. With those parties contributing to the initial costs. BTW, I don't think $500 is unreasonable if it does what we expect and meets ADRs or whatever.
I am in a good position as I don't need my hitch straight away but others might not be so patient.
Leigh LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
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| 20th Jun 2007 10:35 pm |
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simon_arch1
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 502
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So - what criteria do we want to give them?
1. no reduction in departure angle and a significant improvement in ground clearance
2. must allow continued use of the wheel well for spare wheel? or long range tank (though everyone is welcome to buy a wheel carrier
3. what else?
Let me know - they are still keen to commercialise an off-road hitch.
cheers,
Simon D3 - Buckingham Blue, SE, TDV6, 06 model; chipped; underbody armour; Mickey Thompson ATZ 275/65-18 AND MAXXIS Bighorn muddies; rear wheel carrier from 4x4intelligence.com; iPOD aux connection! GME 3200 UHF - aerial mounted on wheel carrier ; LR roof rails/cross bars; Autosafe cargo barrier, Safari Snorkel; Traxide - aux battery; ARB bull bar with Tigerz11 winch; Lightforce 240 XGT driving lights (mitchell bros tow hitch to come)
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| 21st Jun 2007 12:23 am |
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