Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Out of interest do we have to remove the roof bars or expo racks
Just wondering as they are removable. It's pretty clear the need to remove only became apparent as they exhibited wear, rather than by design.
4th Jan 2015 10:07 pm
derryfrombury
Member Since: 01 Sep 2014
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Posts: 212
MCSIMMO Thanks, I'll give my local LR dealer (Marshalls)a all tomorrow and see what they have to say.Joined Aug 2014. Disco 3 SE 54plate, Buckingham Blue, Cream leather.
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4th Jan 2015 10:49 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
countrywide wrote:
Out of interest do we have to remove the roof bars or expo racks
Just wondering as they are removable. It's pretty clear the need to remove only became apparent as they exhibited wear, rather than by design.
Everything is removable ...but not all titled as such 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
4th Jan 2015 11:07 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
It is defined as a detachable tow bar, which simply means it can be detached. The clear definition for this is that it can be detached, nothing more.
I have a detachable inner lining for my outdoor jacket, but it just means if it gets too hot I can remove it, but equally it works in both ways. The same can be said for any number of products, the term detachable just shows flexibility not requirement. I also have a detachable face mask on my chainsaw helmet, doesn't mean it has to be removed. In fact I have a multitude of products that offer detachable options.
Sorry but the defintion means nothing more than the possibility to detach it, not a requirement to do so.
5th Jan 2015 8:28 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
Well the 2006 and 2009 manuals that I have state:
Quote:
DETACHABLE TOW BAR
Your vehicle is fitted with a towing housing
which will accept a detachable tow bar.
WARNING:
The tow bar is heavy. Care must be taken
when handling it.
When handling the tow bar, hold the bottom
of the component. Locking into position
occurs automatically and causes the locking
lever to rotate under spring pressure.
Detachable tow bar stowage
Five-seater models: The tow bar is stowed
under an access hatch in the rear loadspace
floor.
Seven-seater models: The tow bar is stowed
on the left-hand side of the rear loadspace,
behind an access cover
1. Remove the protective cover from the tow
bar mounting.
Note: The protective cover should be
stowed in the tow bar stowage area, while
the tow bar is installed.
2. The tow bar can only be installed when the
green locking lever is in the unlocked
position.
3. Insert the tow bar into the mounting and
push firmly upwards until the tow bar
locks into position.
4. The red marker should be completely
covered by the green locking lever.
5. A lock is provided to prevent theft from the
vehicle. Turn the key anticlockwise to lock
the tow bar. Remove the key and store in a
safe place.
The tow bar must be locked in position before
towing.
It is advised that the tow bar be stored within
the vehicle stowage when not in use.
We can play on words as much as we like ...but to any normal sensible person the above should be clear. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
5th Jan 2015 10:57 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The words are clear to me DG and it took JLR many years before they changed the wording from:
Quote:
It is advised that the tow bar be stored within the vehicle stowage when not in use.
to:
Quote:
The towbar should not be left attached to the vehicle when not in use.
But change it they did when the failure rate became apparent.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I have a pretty good grasp of english and the statement you have put in bold refers to the storage of the tow bar when detached, not that it must be detached for any reason from the vehicle (it doesn't even imply that). It is advising about the best place to store the tow bar not that you have to take it out. It is basically saying don't leave it floating around the boot.
It's not a play on words, that is what it states and that is the reason for the statement, nothing to do with it not being fixed in the slot all the time.
You are reading something into a statement to fit the current position, not what it was written for or the information it was conveying.
Sorry but your understanding of the statement is not sensible at all.
5th Jan 2015 11:07 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
So LR have to hold our hands now then and advice is not good enough
What is the failure rate Rob ? We know that VOSA were working on 6 cases 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
5th Jan 2015 11:09 am
Wolfpack
Member Since: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 121
I am still at a loss why a towbar correctly inserted and NOT USED is wrong? Surely leaving the housing OPEN could mean water and muck get into it?
Its illogical to remove something when not in use and thereby expose the contact surfaces to air, water, dirt and damage????
What am I missing?
5th Jan 2015 11:12 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
I really can't believe what I'm reading there CW So a towbar that is attached is in use whether or not you are towing....is that what you are saying21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
5th Jan 2015 11:14 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
DG wrote:
So LR have to hold our hands now then and advice is not good enough
The correct advice has now been issued and the fact it was not previously given is being addressed. So it's not hand holding it's just the correct advice has been issued.
You only have to hand hold when you ignore the advice, but you have to have it first
5th Jan 2015 11:17 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
DG wrote:
What is the failure rate Rob ? We know that VOSA were working on 6 cases
I've no idea of the true failure rate and I suspect JLR does not have a full picture given that so many vehicles will now be serviced outside the network. Until this action main dealers who did detect excessive play just billed the customer for a new bar, so no warranty claim will have been lodged either. VOSA became involved after a few high-profile incidents, a few direct approaches from owners and (ominously) a whistleblower allegedly from inside the JLR group.
Over the years I've seen around 5 tow balls that I regarded as having a dangerous amount of play in them and I only do this as a hobby!
Anyway, I have thought for some time that VOSA and JLR needed to address this issue. Now that they have I am content.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Last edited by Robbie on 5th Jan 2015 11:20 am. Edited 1 time in total
5th Jan 2015 11:18 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
DG wrote:
I really can't believe what I'm reading there CW So a towbar that is attached is in use whether or not you are towing....is that what you are saying
The English in the statement is pretty clear
It doesn't say anywhere to remove it after towing.
5th Jan 2015 11:19 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
How can it be stored in the stowage when not in use if you don't detach it ?
Sorry but I have always read it as if I'm not using it ...then stow it ...to do that I have to detach it 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
5th Jan 2015 11:26 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Because you definition of use is only based on what you do and what you think is normal. Many people use their tow bar 2 or 3 times a week or more. Use would not mean "I use it Tuesday and Thursday, therefore I must remove it Wednesday", that would not be sensible or expected.
Despite what you are saying, the "use" of the tow bar has also been changed to occasional to reflect the type of user. This was not previously stated, so even using your interpretation a detachable tow bar removed after each use could still have the issue if used a lot and stored, which is why they are trying to correct it.
Believe me I have written manuals and you have to account for more than one type of user. Are you saying you would tow to the camp site for a night, remove the tow bar and then in the morning put it back on to drive home.
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So a towbar that is attached is in use whether or not you are towing....is that what you are saying
