Member Since: 24 Mar 2009
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 234
Last word on split tailgate
I have worked all over the world in various remote locations and I get provided with off road vehicles as my main mode of transport. These have ranged from UAZ Russian jeeps (Fantastic off road because of their light weight), Land Cruisers, Nissan Patrols, Shoguns, Defenders and various American “Trucks”; Dodge RAMS, Suburban’s etc (Found the US stuff to be too cumbersome off road and I’ve never seen one being used in a desert environment, except in the adverts!) I’ve never been provided with a BMW, Merc or any Land Rover model above a Defender. By far the most popular / common vehicle we get and the ones currently in use are Land Cruiser V8's. The transport guys who buy these vehicles buy them based on practicality and reliability not on cost; the last thing you want if you’re out in the middle of the Sahara at +50C or Siberia at -50C is a little message popping up on your dash telling you that it’s going into limp mode or shutting down because an air mass sensor has gone tits up!
The Toyota Land Cruiser is one of the best selling 4 x 4’s in the world, especially in the mid high end versions.
Toyota have brought out the new 2017 Land Cruiser and whilst there has been some changes some things have remained the same. Toyota probably did a lot of market research; asking existing owners (The most likely people to buy them again) what they liked or didn’t like, what they would like to change and what they didn’t want to change. Land Rover could have quite easily sent out a questionnaire to all existing customers but didn’t. (Has anyone on this forum been approached by LR marketing research?) LR instead opted to carry out their market research on potential customers, people who probably have never been in proper off road vehicle and have no idea about the practicalities required of an off road 4 x 4. The researchers must have also heard of the “Get them young” strategy, often employed by marketers to encourage brand loyalty from an early age, so it looks as though they also conducted market research on what children want from an off roader..
So what I want to know is:
“Why has the company that produces arguably the world’s top selling high end 4 x 4 brought out new version for 2017, with a split tailgate?”
If Toyota did, why didn’t Land Rover with the Discovery?
Looks like my next 4 x 4 will be Japanese
PS. Still think there's one lurking in there somewhere!
15th Sep 2016 1:33 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73080
LR did put out a questionaire ISTR but it focused on mood lighting and the likes. They prob think of us as dinosaurs and not their trendy yummy mummy targets.
15th Sep 2016 1:40 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
The Land Cruiser is stuck in a time warp, had a look online, that's one nasty interior, no doubt a solid reliable vehicle but sells in very small amounts (in the UK at least) compared to LR products and looking at the photos online it's not hard to see why.
I do think this tailgate thing has been done to death.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
15th Sep 2016 1:50 pm
Fitzy73
Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: Truro
Posts: 2407
I didn't think we could still get the proper Land Cruiser (Amazon) over here anymore.
I've always liked them Andy
15th Sep 2016 4:16 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
The V8 was dropped due to poor sales, the U.K. Site still shows the current Land Cruiser rather than the updated one.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
15th Sep 2016 5:05 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
In many ways the Toyota has already taken over a great deal of Land Rover's traditional market; something that Land Rover seem to be accepting of as they move more and more into the luxury end of the market that Toyota currently have no way of competing in effectively yet.
It's a shame to see Land Rover retreat from another part of the market while they are still very successful in it. Others, like Toyota will happily attempt to fill the void that is now left, but they will need to make something slightly less pig ugly to make a decent impact in this newly vacant niche.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
15th Sep 2016 6:12 pm
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
Just had a look at the 2017 LandCruiser doesn't look as bad inside as i was expecting, not for me though. The highlander caught my eye the internal family shots make it look about the same as a D5! Look at the tailgate the glass lifts up wonder if they will do this on the D5 to try and appease us MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
15th Sep 2016 6:27 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
Who says LR don't do surveys. My one was in for its 1st service yesterday, I received an email today saying "we regret that you had to use Land Rover Assistance blah blah........please can you fill out this questionnaire"
Ehh no I've had this car a year and to my knowledge LRA haven't been out to it
You got to laugh 23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
15th Sep 2016 9:26 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
I remember the first time I drove a Landcruiser and I remember the WOW factor big-time. We were driving along with 7 adults and lots of baggage and there was a small mini type car in front. I felt like it wasn't a matter of overtaking; it was just a matter of accelerating and driving over it.
The Australians don't say for nothing "if you want to go into the desert take a Land Rover. If you want to come back out of the desert take a Toyota"
From what I can see, the next Discovery is going to fall into the hairdresser's category. I just hope the new defender is going to be the next car for the traditional Discovery owner.
Interesting times.
15th Sep 2016 9:44 pm
Bill Wright
Member Since: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 3254
A few years ago I was working in Oman on a Mountain Seismic crew. We had 6 Land Cruisers on hire for 18 months. Each was manned by four young and very fit mountaineers who replaced the local labour who seemed unable to work in the heat and height. Each day we would leave camp loaded up with cables and electronic gizmos to lay out lines across the "inaccessible" areas and obviously we used the vehicles to get as close as we could to start the day.
The vehicles were washed down and inspected daily for mechanical faults by the crew mechanics when we returned after our 10 hour day.
After 18 months, we handed the vehicles back. Apart from two cracked windscreens, some torn upholstery and some dents and dings they were functioning perfectly. In all that time, we had no engine or gearbox failures although I can recall a suspension component giving up. They may be "ugly" but they're very strong and reliable.Never take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
D4 SDV6 SE Tech Kaikoura Stone MY15.
16th Sep 2016 7:42 am
Dave InOz
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: NSW
Posts: 37
I have owned many Landcruisers and will never own another. Your dream of a tough reliable vehicle is not made by Toyota believe me.
The reason so many people in Australia own them is because they are cheap to buy and spare parts (that are not cheap) but are easy to get when your Toyota breaks down in the middle of nowhere because there will generally be 3 or 4 others that broke down in every tiny little town that where too expensive to fix and sit there rotting away, to get parts off. No other reason, I tell you ask anyone that owns one here and the parts thing will always come up, it’s number 2 or 3 on the list of reasons why people own them.
They are exhausting to drive long distances and no one takes them off road without heavy modifications. Usually the first thing they do is put a $2000 suspension kit on it followed by bulbar, winch, diff locks, snorkel, tyres, air compressor, dual batteries etc $10000 to $15000 latter you have something that might get you somewhere. That’s why ARB is such a big aftermarket manufacturer, 90% of the stuff they make are for Toyotas because they need it.
After a few years of ownership you’ll get the seemingly incurable diff leaking problem, chassis cracks and don’t go towing anything over 3000kg for any length of time or you’ll do your gearbox. Sure there are exceptions with every kind of car but in the end you get sick of driving around a dinosaur with drum brakes (only changed recently) and leaf springs (still used by them today, even trucks don’t use leaf springs anymore) http://www3.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70/s...suspension and jump into a Disco, RR or any other 4x4 and wonder why you put up with them for so long.
As I have.
16th Sep 2016 9:16 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
That's interesting Dave, never heard that kind of report about Toyota before, though I'm usually amazed by some of the Stone Age engineering underpinning many Japanese 4x4's. Even the Defender gave up on leaf springs around 30 years ago!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
16th Sep 2016 1:51 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14387
I was in the US last week and had a Hyundai Santa Fe which I did 500 miles in. I must say I was very impressed with it. Comfortable, quiet, well made and well specced. It was very big inside and had 7 good seats and a good boot. Looking on line it also comes with a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty, has great reviews
It's got to make you think....New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
16th Sep 2016 2:49 pm
nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1359
The desert is the best place for the Landcruiser, as tarmac isn't. I have driven a number over the years at a tow car event, the last one being in April this year. Dangerous is possibly the kindest comment I could make. Personally, I think LR need to get their act together on long term reliability, but given the choice of a LR product with a questionable record, or something that is horrible to drive and has dangerous road manners, I would take the LR every time.
16th Sep 2016 3:19 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
Quote:
The researchers must have also heard of the “Get them young” strategy, often employed by marketers to encourage brand loyalty from an early age, so it looks as though they also conducted market research on what children want from an off roader.. Laughing
Looks like your thoughts are correct
What would us "Oldies" know anyway
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/ar...-cope.htmlD4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
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