Member Since: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Posts: 1600
Robbie wrote:
Lots of threads all over the place for this issue. To me it seems a very simple issue, at least with all the vehicles I have seen. All the vehicles struggling for heat have been over-reading the interior temperature (as displayed on diagnostic equipment). Dealers can see this, IID and Faultmate owners can see this, as can JLR.
I've no idea how this error came about or why JLR are unwilling to fix it, but it is not a difficult fault to understand.
If LR wash their hands on this one, is this the sort of thing that the clever guys at GAP could come up with a calibration fix for the sensor?Stu
2016 D4 Landmark current
2022 Defender D300 SE Gone
D4 2014 XS Commercial - Gone
D4 2016 hse lux montalcino red - Gone
D3 2005 se java black - current
D3 2005 base manual - gone
D2 1999 TD5 E white - current
16th Feb 2017 9:22 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
If there is a software load out there that works on the stop-start D4s then yes. Unfortunately the HEVAC changes for stop-start preclude older firmwares from being used. My MY13 internal temperature sensor works fine, but that does not help those with later vehicles.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Posts: 1600
Thanks for the insight Robbie. Always learn something from your posts.Stu
2016 D4 Landmark current
2022 Defender D300 SE Gone
D4 2014 XS Commercial - Gone
D4 2016 hse lux montalcino red - Gone
D3 2005 se java black - current
D3 2005 base manual - gone
D2 1999 TD5 E white - current
16th Feb 2017 9:52 pm
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6910
mine is a March 16 build and works fine, I find it strange that it could be software with both older and newer ones affected? I think it must be hardware or a fault rather than simple software.Joined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
17th Feb 2017 6:58 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
If you look at the numbers so far and for fairness exclude for a moment those which haven't had the TSB done, there are marginally more cars with heating issues than not.
Bearing in mind the TSB covers a larger pool of cars than just MY16 and the issues with MY16 are somewhat unique, it is safe to say the TSB probably won't fix all the problems on the cars not done yet.
So although this is a small group so far, the results show that at least Land Rover should acknowledge that further investigation is warranted rather than saying it is working per design intent.
Please keep the votes coming
17th Feb 2017 9:06 am
discoteca
Member Since: 08 Mar 2010
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1477
As I said earlier in the thread I'm still not convinced that the new sensor on the screen doesn't have something to do with it. Checked some live values this morning, internal temp sensor was reading 22 with heating set to 21 admitedly after only about a half hour run so will check that again after a longer run.
Interestingly the windsreeen sensor was showing the following live values on the IID:
Relative humidity 68%
Windshield air temperature 63548 deg
Windsield surface temperature 63548 deg
Presumably that's more likely to be an issue with the IID interpreting the data properly? It seems a very high value
17th Feb 2017 9:29 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I got those weird readings as well, I just assumed they were not implemented correctly by the system.
I think one of the issues is you never get any air flow out of the face vents and it goes mostly to the floor (and a little on windscreen) all the time regardless of whether flaps are in the intermediate position. This causes hot and cold areas in the car which I think makes the perception of it being cold even worse.
17th Feb 2017 10:23 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Bit of a update. I spent a lot of time looking at the issue and comparing to other MY D4's while they were side by side in the same environment with the same climate settings etc. I was getting pretty frustrated as I like the D4 and it was getting to the point it was being sold, so thought I would give it one last try.
My cars internal cabin sensor was reading higher than the other MY's (which didn't have an issue). Bearing in mind I had already had a new sensor under warranty, I wondered if there was a variation in the response of the sensor. I then took a cabin temperature sensor off a working vehicle and measured the resistance of the two side by side and it was different. I then did the same in the car without the climate running and the GAP tool showed a 2-3 degree difference (the replacement reading lower) in the sensors when I swapped them. This could not be down to air flow as they were static in the vehicle.
So I put the sensor from a working car in mine and carefully made sure the foam seal stopped any airflow from under the dash getting into the system. The readings from the replacement one are lower in use as well compared to the original on the same climate settings. I think the variance is greater at different temperatures as well, so not linear.
It has been over a week with some cold weather and it is massively improved so far, probably to the point where it compares with other D4's I have access to. I can't guarantee this will fix your problems, but in my case it has had a positive affect. The sensors appear to be the same on the D3 & D4, so Ebay might have some for sale. I bought one of ebay in the end from a D3 for £15.
I will say that Land Rover refused to give me the design information on cabin temperature sensor correlation to actually temperature, which is stupid as it can't be confidential as you could take a working car and work it out in minutes (which in reality is what we did). But all along they said it was working to design intent, but wouldn't share the design intent for me to compare it to. Also they didn't see the car or provide the dealer with the design information. So I am not sure how they could say it worked to design intent when nobody was given the opportunity to actually do a comparison using real information. I would also question how a dealer could ever fix it if they don't know what the values should be, I hope they don't use this approach to torque settings !!!!
I also checked the software/firmware and hardware when comparing cars and working one's had the exact same versions as my car which was not working.
Anyway I am not sure if this will help any of you, but I hope you can get a resolution. One thing to note is that in the heating cycle you will get little output from the centre dash outlets, but they will kick in with limited cooler airflow when the car reaches the right cabin temperature. My feeling (and it is a guess), is that the cabin temperature sensor was reporting the cabin was at temperature and then started to allow some flow from these vents as is normal, which given the cabin wasn't at temperature made you feel cold. There appears to be some algorithm they use for distribution, which I assume is upset if the sensor is off.
7th Mar 2017 12:09 pm
pope227
Member Since: 20 Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 339
My D4 is showing the same issue. MY14 I believe. It is now out of warranty but would TSB be carried out free still as a recall would be does anyone know? It would make sense if a known issue but know LR they would charge. D4 HSE Luxury
Causeway Grey
20th Nov 2019 1:34 pm
NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 548
Mine is MY14 with all TSBs completed but still with woefully cabin heating in cold conditions. I’ve recalibrated vents using GAP also but without improvements. GAP does show odd windscreen temperatures though...
Cabin temp was not 34BTW!!!
20th Nov 2019 1:41 pm
pope227
Member Since: 20 Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 339
I disconnected my windscreen sensor this morning to see if any difference and will monitor. Though it might keep the heated screen on for longer too as it goes off after about a minute! Didn’t seem to stay on for longer though D4 HSE Luxury
Causeway Grey
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