Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
D5 Mk2 customer requirements to buy
Last edited by Dan_NL on 21st Apr 2019 12:19 am. Edited 12 times in total
21st Jan 2018 12:42 am
galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
drop the price
21st Jan 2018 12:43 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14389
Split tail gate
Split charge with power to the rear
Improve 2nd row seats
Expedition rack
Rear ladder
Low range box
Hybrid / PHEV option
Improve dealer network
Get real about the priceNew Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
21st Jan 2018 1:39 am
Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
@Moo
What do you mean with "..Split charge with power to the rear .." ?
21st Jan 2018 1:47 am
tayaste
Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: Chester
Posts: 7633
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Forget the “Mk2”, go straight to a new designer, complete rebody and the “Discovery 6” please
Bring on:
Stadium seating
Deep side windows
Full command driving position with nice low dash
Excellent visibility, including being able to see all corners
Powerful reversing lights
Individually folding rear seats
Low loading height
Proper split tailgate (the FF’s is okay and like old age, is much better than the alternative, but it’s well short of a D4’s capability)
Get rid of at least half of the unnecessary electric motors (I’ve run an electric tailgate for 10,000 miles and it’s mostly a silly gimmick)
Proper stepped roof
Square loading bay with 2,500 litres of load space
A roof rack compatible roof...
Actually, forget it, it’s not going to happen; McGovern eventually managed to reverse the “Form follows function” mantra that he said that he so admired when he came back to LR. Just like the original R50 BMW MINI, the stylist will come up with a soap bar shape and then the clever people, who should have been involved from the start, will just have to make do and fit people and stuff inside it the best they can!2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
21st Jan 2018 7:06 am
kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6753
TBH, most larger organizations are unable to confront themselves and admit they really up.
First - There are too many departments, stakeholders and approval layers involved. Each and every one of them have a tendency to deflect or diminish blame since it tends to be career affecting. Each and every one of them probably have a vested interest on some level to the final design, too, so they’ll pretend everything is all right rather than confront the issue head on and start from scratch.
While people say “designer this, designer that” I would be really surprised if one guy or even his team was responsible for the vehicle. Larger projects in other verticals are designed by committee and do pass through an insane amount of project gates where features (dimensions, certain functionality, etc.) is locked down until the “thing” is compete. PMs, VPs, SVPs, EVPs approve things their departments have previously agreed to.
Second - Down the line LR has a bunch of suppliers who they’ve committed to, on some level, to purchase parts for X years for some (probably) minimum orderable quantity with short and long term forecasting. To change the design would mean that those suppliers would need to be told that they’re not going to get what was promised. Again in other verticals there are contractual penalties involved for failing to meet the commitments.
Third - That the car is selling “roughly equivalent to the D4” will be explained to the industry analysts and within the organization and follows:
- bad economy
- changed purchasing decisions
- people do not want bigger vehicles
- people want to buy green
- we have smaller models selling really well
- we have larger models selling really well
- our total sales are up while this large SUV segment is stagnant
- ...
Analysts don’t care, their incentive is to get money for writing research which is nowadays paid by their customers. Another side of the company gets money for facilitating trading. A third part gets money for facilitating the issuance of senior notes, bonds, whatever to the company if they need financing (like if their blue sky estimate of how many cars will sell isn’t happening but their spending was tuned as if it would..), etc.
Everyone wins except the real end customer which is why we are griping.
Sorry for ruining everyone’s day
I, too, would like to see a more bulky and square corner D6 with a distinctive front, side and rear profile, big engine, seating 7 people comfortably, etc.
21st Jan 2018 7:52 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Very interesting post there, which really made me stop and think for a bit!
Just to clarify, I gave McGovern the blame as he heads up the department and he does seem to be especially good at spouting complete nonsense.
To be fair, responsibility for the external design would be better aimed at, ex Kia Designer, Massimo Frascella.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
21st Jan 2018 8:11 am
Philip1972
Member Since: 10 Mar 2017
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1073
Sorry for potententially daft question.
Does the D5 not have low range, like my D4??????
21st Jan 2018 8:38 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Everyone that I’ve driven does
But I’ve never driven a 2 litre, or basic one....2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
21st Jan 2018 8:39 am
Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
From whati I see this is not a "Mk2" thing... so BIN the D5..
Or, play it like a manager, makeover the D4 and name it "Defender"
21st Jan 2018 8:52 am
kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6753
Red Merle wrote:
Very interesting post there, which really made me stop and think for a bit!
Just to clarify, I gave McGovern the blame as he heads up the department and he does seem to be especially good at spouting complete nonsense.
To be fair, responsibility for the external design would be better aimed at, ex Kia Designer, Massimo Frascella.
Wasn’t my intention to put you on the spot I’ve read his statements, too, but since I’ve been exposed slightly to how press releases are written I’ve not made him the antichrist... yet. Unless the guy was on camera talking silly things the stuff they attribute person X in press releases isn’t necessarily written by he person at all but by a copywriter somewhere in marketing. The attributed person might get advance notice of what he is “saying” but might not have opportunity to make corrections beyond “please tone it down a bit”. Also the press might quote someone’s statements but they might not be word by word what they really said.
At Apple the designer face you always see is Jonny Ive but if the poor dude is designing everything he wouldn’t ever be off work. His job is to provide the guidance, the thought leadership, ensure it is compatible with the brand they represent and give a seal of approval on whatever they want to ship. Mr. McGovern’s job is something similar, I would imagine.
Rather than the designers - who work and report to someone - I’d put the blame squarely on the top management since they have failed to a. understand what their existing customers want, b. to align or empower their respective departments to produce such things. The CEO seems to be happy in all press releases (see above ) but he can’t really say anything else, can he?
OTOH perhaps they do understand all of the above and feel that they’re in front of a paradigm shift - that their existing customer base isn’t large enough for their grand visions and that they must transform the company and vehicles so they can sell to larger markets at the cost of losing the current ones. I would imagine LR buys pretty much all car industry research, have competitive intelligence units, attempt to think about their positioning message, etc.
IMO, I think they up royally but can’t change direction for a few years since their 22B+ company has a large turning radius. And the stock price wouldn’t like it at all .....
Sitting and waiting on the minions in swimming school so I’ve got ample time to arm chair analyze
21st Jan 2018 9:47 am
Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
Reading through the comments I think maybe they went for the 'sleek' section, not the bulky,
pronounced, 7 seater etc version as they can not win that option...
We, the customers, should look further afield... ..its already out there.. 8)
- square, bulky, commanding view, low line windows...
- huge boot, no silly electric motors... .. square roofrack, rear ladder..
.. VW Crafter...
21st Jan 2018 10:08 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Thank Kajtzu, very interesting and informative 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
up.
I’ve read his statements, too, but since I’ve been exposed slightly to how press releases are written I’ve not made him the antichrist... yet. 
Unless the guy was on camera talking silly things the stuff they attribute person X in press releases isn’t necessarily written by he person at all but by a copywriter somewhere in marketing. The attributed person might get advance notice of what he is “saying” but might not have opportunity to make corrections beyond “please tone it down a bit”. Also the press might quote someone’s statements but they might not be word by word what they really said.
