Member Since: 25 Aug 2013
Location: Teesdale
Posts: 1418
80% is a recommendation only. No more than that.
Also:
- if you took a random sample of caravans on the road right now I'd guess 50% of them would be overloaded in the sense that their actual weight as measured on a weighbridge is over the MPTLM. But nobody checks and - generally - no harm is done.
- you need to look at noseweight. Many caravans these days are most comfortable with a noseweight in the 80-100 kg range. Many towcars are not. And trying to reduce the caravan noseweight by moving things to the rear is often counterproductive and leads to worse towing behaviour.
9th Mar 2018 7:49 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 331
Brian, once again I quite agree, especially with your comments regarding overloading, what l still don’t know is where did the 80% come from and what was the criteria for arriving at that figure!
9th Mar 2018 8:36 pm
gvw
Member Since: 16 Jan 2012
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 872
Edit - it's 85% for novices and 100% for more experienced tuggers
9th Mar 2018 9:12 pm
gvw
Member Since: 16 Jan 2012
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 872
I've run a cc matching report for the Audi matched with a buccaneer having MTPLM of 1940kg to give an idea.
It shows it's ok to tow with caution and therefore if you lower the weight of the van the better it will be.
It also picks up on the nose weight issue highlighted by Brian
Click image to enlarge
9th Mar 2018 9:22 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 331
Sorry to be so pedantic, but a recommendation, which is all that the information in the above document, is, needs to be based on some facts. What are these facts? How did whoever made this decision decide that 80% was the appropriate ratio?
Also how experienced do you have to be to tow 3500 kgs with a Disco, which gives a ratio of approx 130%
9th Mar 2018 10:43 pm
D4mation
Member Since: 29 Jul 2011
Location: Ruralshire
Posts: 593
There's a world of difference between towing a 2 ton wobble box and a 2 ton Ifor Williams trailer.
Side winds and buffeting from buses and HGVs can push a caravan all over the place.
The Caravan Club made the newbies 85% recomendation years ago to take account of this. It wasn't based on any facts or calculations, rather just on experience.MY12 D4 HSE Ipanema Sand
There are a number of different offense which have to be considered. If stopped the first thing checked is the plated weights. The caravan plate says 2000kg, the car kerb weight is 1985kg therefore the caravan maximum weight is heavier than the car min weight therefore making it illegal. Actual measured weights is a different offence. Trailer are different to caravans as they can be heavier than the minimum weight of the towing vehicle. Next it the train weight, if the car is fully load to its maximum weight then the maximum towing weight may be reduced. A lot of pickups fall foul of this nugget. Then the dreaded scales which measure the actual weights, this is being overloaded. Next you have you driving licence rules.
Best advice is to get the local caravan dealer to replace the caravan plated weight back to original thus make you legal if stopped.
10th Mar 2018 2:55 am
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
Got any links to back that statement up with? A link to the construction and use regs or road traffic act etc?
Why would a caravan being heavier than the tow vehicle be illegal if the plated and actual weights are within spec?
10th Mar 2018 4:24 am
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
Posts: 1509
D4mation wrote:
There's a world of difference between towing a 2 ton wobble box and a 2 ton Ifor Williams trailer.
I fully agree, nothing compares to towing an ifor Williams with two or three Cows each weighing around 800kgs and they start doing “A siege of Venice” in the trailer.
As for nose weight... with a moving load with Cows the nose weights can go from plus 100’s of KGS to minus 100’s of KGS in a flash. Even stationary you could get sea sickness in the D3 with all the movement.
10th Mar 2018 7:58 am
D4mation
Member Since: 29 Jul 2011
Location: Ruralshire
Posts: 593
ammac wrote:
There are a number of different offense which have to be considered. If stopped the first thing checked is the plated weights. The caravan plate says 2000kg, the car kerb weight is 1985kg therefore the caravan maximum weight is heavier than the car min weight therefore making it illegal. ............
A Discovery, like other heavy 4x4s, is designed to tow trailers heavier than its kerb weight.
Kerb weight is not stated on the car VIN plate, and in fact is almost impossible to determine as a "legal" number.
The only way to be illegal is if any of the VIN plate limits for both car and trailer have been exceeded (GVW, GTW, Axle1, Axle 2, MTPLM).
All the axles will need to be weighed to determine legality.
Plod will also check the car GVW and trailer MTPLM to establish whether there is an infringement of driving licence entitlements.
Edit: A caravan is a trailer and abides by the same weight laws.MY12 D4 HSE Ipanema Sand
Got any links to back that statement up with? A link to the construction and use regs or road traffic act etc?
Why would a caravan being heavier than the tow vehicle be illegal if the plated and actual weights are within spec?
Hi James
I don't know why caravans and trailers are different but the following link is to the National Caravan Council's guide lines and on page 8, it covers car / caravan weights. The back page has DfT, DVLA and Highways Agency logos.
You could go to public weight bridge every time you wish tow your caravan and carry the weight bridge certificate with you. Or the simpler method would be to go with the caravan maximum plated weight as stated. I also checked my Bailey Caravan handbook and it states the exact same.
I towed for years with the caravan's MTPLM weighting more that the kerb weight of the car and I am sure over the gross train weight for the car and caravan combination. A lot of people do but it too risky now as cops are cracking down on this, hence why I have disco.
The OP was concerned about be illegal therefore a sense of caution would make sense. I suspect the change of a metal plate to the original spec would be fraction of the cost of the penalty points and fine. Another consideration if you are pulled and charged, how do you get your caravan home?
[quote=A caravan is a trailer and abides by the same weight laws.[/quote]
I don't doubt that but if the caravan manufacturer says the towing vehicle kerb weight must be heavier than the maximum weight of their product to use their product safely then that extra requirement would have to be adhered to, I would have thought.
Quote:
Kerb weight is not stated on the car VIN plate, and in fact is almost impossible to determine as a "legal" number.
Yes it is not on the vin plate but in the Landrover's handbook which comes with the car it states the kerb weight for petrol as 2486-2704kg and for diesel as 2494-2718kg. I am sure the lowest kerb weight of 2486kg is heavier than any caravan which can be legally tow by a car in the UK.
10th Mar 2018 1:14 pm
D4mation
Member Since: 29 Jul 2011
Location: Ruralshire
Posts: 593
Ammac - the point I'm making in support of the OP's question is that it is not illegal for the caravan MTPLM to be heavier than the car's kerb weight.
When DVSA stop a vehicle for loading checks they can only refer to plated weights and some scales, they won't be referring to any owner manuals.
Kerb weight is not a legally defined weight. Even on the same model of vehicle it will vary with the options fitted.MY12 D4 HSE Ipanema Sand
10th Mar 2018 3:30 pm
KenR
Member Since: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Argyll Scotland
Posts: 331
Amman - many Airstream caravans weigh in excess of 3000 kgs
I would love an Airtream but I thought the problem is they are longer than 7.0 meters excluding the A frame rather than weight meaning you cannot tow them with a vehicle with a GVW of less than 3500kg. This would mean it need to be a commercial vehicle to tow them as no car is that heavy.
As previously stated I don't understand the reasoning behind the rules, I am going by advice given by the caravan manufacturers, the breakdown companies and recognised caravan organisations.
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