Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 24
Can IID tool clear the "3 amigos"?
Long story shortened as best I can:
Overnight height loss traced to a front strut on my MY05 D3 (158k miles - owned from new). Fitted 2 new Dunlop front struts. Within a few days I had a 200-mile journey during which "3 amigos" appeared - i.e. Stability/ABS/Parking warning lights and "Special Programs Off". Fixed immediately with a roadside stop and re-start. A few minutes later suspension amber light appeared and suspension seemed low and stiff but not quite as harsh as it would on bump stops. Completed journey at reduced speed just in case.
Next day 3 amigos on starting up - persistent - i.e. unable to clear on re-start.
At this time I didn't have an iid Tool, so after reading around this BB, I decided to get one and to replace the original Hitachi compressor (13 years old). I wasn't surprised to find that it had developed a leak between to 2 forward-facing pipe conns. and thought that might have been responsible for the amber light.
Shiny new AMK compressor fitted and Suspension ECU flashed with iid Tool in accordance with changing from Hitachi unit. Faults read and cleared. Suspension ECU not throwing any fault codes. I can pump the suspension up and down using the iid Tool. However, the 3 amigos still persist and as soon as I try and drive off I get "Suspension lowered" and the amber light.
The error codes I do have are:-
Model L319 - Discovery 3 2005
Vehicle scanned on 22 Mar 2018 12:59:32
IIDControl 2.9.4.5 Android - IIDTool BT V3.0 B2481
Body Control
B1B89-3A (2F) Seat slide motor speed/position sensor - Frequency modulation/pulse width modulation failure - incorrect, has too many pulses
( on 30-09-2017 10:11:26 at 254730 km )
Engine TDV6
P0405-00 (2F) Exhaust gas recirculation sensor A - circuit low
P140A-00 (2F) Exhaust gas recirculation sensor C - circuit low
Transfer Case
U0122-87 (2F) Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( on 30-09-2017 10:11:30 at 254736 km )
Transmission
P0500-00 (2F) Vehicle speed sensor A
( on 30-09-2017 10:11:30 at 254736 km )
As the car has done only 158319 miles = 253310km - I guess L/R had it do a few secret laps of Eastnor Castle before they let me have it.
- I have tried a hard reset - though not again since the compressor switch-over.
- I have not had a go at any of the valve blocks but am slightly suspicious of the front one.
- I have changed the brake light switch
- The air reservoir tank is original but appears to be sound as the new compressor responds to iid Tool corner test inputs and doesn't run continuously.
- The car does not sink if left up on terrain clearance height overnight.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Last edited by snow?wotsnow? on 23rd Mar 2018 10:46 am. Edited 2 times in total
22nd Mar 2018 3:10 pm
Mole734
Member Since: 12 Aug 2016
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 161
Strange that there's no fault codes.
May be worth looking at the live values of the suspension sensors while driving, if you use the graph view you may see that one or more is sticking, mine did this but was throwing a 'sensor plausibility' error
22nd Mar 2018 4:21 pm
Discogaz
Member Since: 17 Mar 2014
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 1399
My wheel speed sensor was chafed through and threw up the same faults, the fact that it's mentioned in the faults list would have me checking them first.
Cheap to fix, not sure if front or rear but mine was the left rear, not sure if the code indicates front or rear but get front left and rear right wheel off and check them, if it's worn, you should be able to see green staining where the copper has oxidised. quick unplug and refit new one. Easy
22nd Mar 2018 7:18 pm
Discogaz
Member Since: 17 Mar 2014
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 1399
Wrong wheels, front right and rear left, just an 8mm socket (think) gets it undone at the hub
22nd Mar 2018 7:21 pm
jetmech
Member Since: 22 Feb 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 271
The suspension lowering with no related faults almost certainly means that you don’t have a suspension fault. You need to sort out the “P” codes first. These cars lower when there are other faults.Simon.
2008MY Dicovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual
You need to sort this one out {P0500-00 (2F) Vehicle speed sensor A }, Go in to live values and check the wheel speed sensors to make sure all four are working and giving a reading.
Flack
22nd Mar 2018 9:17 pm
snow?wotsnow?
Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 24
Thank you all for the pointers. I took another look at faults late yesterday and found a new one had been added to the list by the IID Tool, which tends to confirm the wheel sensors may be the culprit(s) :-
Vehicle Dynamic
C1A93-13 (0B) Rear right wheel speed sensor circuit - General electrical failure - circuit open
( on 30-09-2017 15:33:44 at 254738 km )
Just as an observation, why - if the error has been there since last September - didn't the IID Tool tell me about it yesterday? Please don't bother to answer that question The answer is that it was a clearable fault and I emailed the fault list after clearing, so I missed it but the IID Tool knew all along.
Feedback to follow after investigation.
23rd Mar 2018 9:15 am
snow?wotsnow?
Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 24
Live Values test on wheel speed confirmed a zero reading from the right rear. The 3 other sensors gave readings. Right rear wheel speed sensor replaced. I then obtained the same result on Live Values test.
I need to go further up the ABS loom to look for a bad connection. Needle...haystack?
24th Mar 2018 11:06 am
snow?wotsnow?
Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 24
A couple of hours' research and then I got lucky. More reading around this excellent BB led me to discussions of chafing issues causing wiring loom problems in early D3's, particularly at the bottom rear side of the left hand wheel arch.
First I removed the ABS connector plug and checked the voltage across the (working) left rear wheel sensor - 11.6V. This was done by connecting pin 3 (12V) to pin 6 and a voltmeter from pin 27 to pin 1 (ground). In comparison the right rear wheel sensor pins 8 and 9 gave only 10.5V. This suggested to me that I probably had a chafed but not quite disconnected wire somewhere.
Off came the nearside (left) front wheel and the splashguard, revealing 3 significant connectors alongside each other, just above the chassis outrigger in front of the passenger foot-well.
Sure enough there was a pale green tell-tale, only about 1mm across, of corroded copper stain on a white wire (twisted with a green/white) below the middle plug. This seemed worth investigating because the pair connecting the right rear wheel sensor at the plug behind the rear air strut is also green/white and white.
I cut the white wire which was evidently damaged at the stain location and soldered it back together. The solder joint might not appear to have a classic tinned appearance but it withstood the fairly-hard-tug test and what is more, the voltmeter across pins 8 and 9 (see above) now gave 11.6V - the same as the reading from the opposite sensor.
Ignition to position 2 - 3 Amigos gone!
So the answer to the question in the subject is "No" the IID Tool can't kill off the "3 Amigos". You have to find the cause and fix it.
Do I think the £400 investment in the IID Tool was worth it? No doubt about it.
The question remains: why did I experience ABS (i.e. DSC) cutting in on left and right hand bends taken briskly, which has now been eliminated by re-connecting one of the rear wheel speed sensors, without the 3 Amigos having been activated in the first place? It does not pay to dwell on this. Viewed the other way around, I had some weeks of puzzlement before being compelled to go and find the cause. The next time I get a momentary DSC alarm on the dash I will have a good idea where to look. I hope others will be able to save time based on this result.
The coincidence of this wheel speed sensor problem with the changing of a suspension compressor is just that. "You wait a long time for a bus and then 2 come at once."
Member Since: 16 Aug 2015
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire
Posts: 3
Right Rear wheel speed sensor circuit C1A93
I had this exact issue. warning lights, error code coming out me ears, car sunk to its knees.
Replaced the ABS sensor - no joy - damm.
After reading this post I removed the plastic insert in front left wing and did continuity tests back to the ABS sensor socket. White wire from left wing to rear of car had a break - .
cut the wire close to where it goes into the main loom (still front left wing) - yes, continuity to the back.
Started cutting the white wire working back towards the connector, only had to go 4mm to get to the break!
No external visual marks, chaffing, or discolouration.
Soldered ends of wire back together and protected with heat shrink tubing.
Turned on ignition - no more Blackpool illuminations. Systematically cleared out all fault codes - perfect 8)
Points I learnt -
*again this forum saved me alot of time and money - big big thanks
*Ignore the communication errors in the fault logs - look for error codes that relate to actual parts / circuits on the car.
* wow such a simple failure can and does literally put your car on it's knees - next time I won't be panicked by a whole host of error messages, warning lights and error codes - the fix might be simple and cheap
* the time spent dismantling to get to the offending part always out weighs the time to fix by a factor of approx 10, lol
Next Problem is the EPB, no surprise, same day I fixed the speed sensor the EPB squealed like a pig. Already searched the forum so I now know where to start and what to do.
You guys on here are awesome
Thanks again2007 D3 SE
2012 Freelander 2 SD4
BMW R1200GS
Matchless G11
11th Feb 2019 1:10 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
Generally the "U" codes are comms errors (CAN BUS) brought about by "the real" fault, and are in the first instance better ignored in the presence of P, C, or B codes. Otherwise known as "throws all its toys out of the pram syndrome"
Well done on getting it sorted yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
11th Feb 2019 4:12 pm
snow?wotsnow?
Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 24
By way of a post-script, I have just been through a situation where the IID Tool did clear the "3 amigos" without direct influence from a physical fault.
My trusty D3, now approaching its 15th birthday, intermittently started to throw up the 3 amigos when changing from Reverse to Drive. Reboot resolved this but it got to the point where this happened every time and I was on the point of calling for expert help.
One day, I drove somewhere distant and pulled up, selecting Park only to find that the transmission was still in Drive when I took my foot off the brake. Then (without thinking) I left the lever in Park and switched off the engine. The problem I set myself in doing so was that I couldn't re-start the engine because it thought it was in Drive and neither could I extract the ignition key. Therefore the various bits had to come off the centre console so that I could get to the release wire (to disengage drive) and allow the dear old thing to be winched onto a recovery truck to get to Bristol Transmissions (-highly recommended - and I get no reward for saying so).
It turned out that the problem was nothing to do with the transmission itself but the bracket that holds the lower end of the transmission selector cable had rusted away and failed. Cheap repair for once. I picked up the car and drove home with no warning lights until I did a bit of reversing in the driveway, when up came the 3 amigos again.
Out came the IID tool, which offered no explanation for the problem. So I told it to do a soft reset. Problem solved. Many miles later and no recurrence. So the fault that was 99% likely to have been the cause of the 3 amigos was fixed but the redundant error message that was lurking in the system still had to be flushed out and the IID Tool did the job.
25th Nov 2019 3:46 pm
sailingaway
Member Since: 10 Dec 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 89
I’ve just had the 3 amigos come up and my search led me here. It appears that my rear wheel sensor is the most likely fault based on the codes, but…
I’m interested in the mentions of compressors and EPBs on this thread. We had the EPB changed in December, and then had the Clutch, Suspension Compressor, and two Struts changed last month (should have bought a new car!!). The car has been OK for the 600 miles since clutch/compressor change, once I’d re-calibrated the XY sensor, and this afternoon it threw up these faults on my partner:
L319 - Discovery 3 2006
Vehicle scanned on 01-06-2024 14:39
Using IIDTool BT V4.0 B2803
Audio System
B1D21-13 (2F) Remote control switch - General electrical failure - circuit open
( at 251356 km )
Body Control
B1B70-81 (28) Local interconnection network bus circuit 2 - Bus signal/message failure - invalid serial data received
( at 251430 km )
B1D14-15 (2C) Interior lamps 2 circuit - General electrical failure - circuit short to battery or open
( at 251350 km )
Engine TDV6
P0196-00 (68) Engine oil temperature sensor circuit range/performance
Parking Brake
U0101-87 (A8) Lost communication with transmission control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( at 251356 km )
U0122-87 (A8) Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( at 251932 km )
Transfer Case
U0122-87 (2F) Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( at 251932 km )
Vehicle Dynamic
C1A93-13 (0B) Rear right wheel speed sensor circuit - General electrical failure - circuit open
( at 251932 km )
I’m on the water just now so can’t investigate it until tomorrow, and I intend to start with the speed sensor circuit. I’m interested in the P0196-00 (68) Engine oil temperature sensor circuit range/performance fault too as that isn’t one of the U’s.
Apparently I can ignore transmission control module as it’s a manual so doesn’t have one!
Seems a bit coincidental that it’s so recent after the compressor failure, but may be unconnected I guess!
1st Jun 2024 2:23 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
New wheel speed sensor and oil temp sensors, easy and quick job. If there's still an issue check the TCM connections for corrosion or water ingress.(which you do have!) yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
1st Jun 2024 4:47 pm
sailingaway
Member Since: 10 Dec 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 89
Thanks prof - not sure where I got the « No TCM » from!
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