mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2704
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Its fine - also you can take from that dont use the park heat.
Dont run a motorhome, generators in those welfare vans...thats also a no etc.
Its fine
Although i like the engine running bit - have they been on the M6 Mike
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1st Jul 2019 10:16 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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It might be 'fine' in your eyes but that doesn't make it legal I'm not sure quite what you mean about park heat ...do you mean via the fbh? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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1st Jul 2019 10:30 pm |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2704
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Doesn't make it illegal either - but its definitely fine! Like several things on forums - it gets over complicated
Oh and technically it is attended - because the car is both secure and monitored in the app!
Ignoring anything not on the highway is private (long may that freedom remain) and the highway code only applies on the highways...even if it did apply
FBH yes, thats an engine in a car Mike
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1st Jul 2019 11:11 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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Please continue testing your theory 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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1st Jul 2019 11:26 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23832
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My understanding has long been that the key to the Road Traffic Act is “public access”. As in anyone can enter the road, highway, car park etc. without needing some form of permission.
As always, I’m happy to be corrected. 👍 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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1st Jul 2019 11:44 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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Always good fun
Quote:What is a ‘road’?
Legally, what is a ‘road’?
According to the Road Traffic Act 1988, s 192(1) a ‘road’ means any highway to which the public has access. It also includes any bridges over which a road passes.
The question to be asked, if the place is not obviously a highway, is whether the general public have actual and legal access to it.
Also, a road physically should have the character of a definable route, with ascertainable edges, and that leads from one point to another to enable travellers to move conveniently from one point to another along that route.
Accordingly, using the above legislation, the question of whether a place is a ‘road’ is whether, factually, it can be made to fit into the above description.
A private occupation road leading to a farm, if at the time the public have access, is a road (Harrison v Hill 1932 SC 13).
However, the mere fact that residents and their visitors used an access road to a council’s housing estate does not mean the public generally have access (see Deacon v A T (a juvenile) [1976] Crim LR 135).
“It’s a matter of degree”
The question is one of degree: a mere slight degree of access by the public is not enough to satisfy the definition of “road” in s 192 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (Cox v White [1976] RTR 248, [1976] Crim LR 263).
Why is it important?
The Road Traffic Act 1991 made the offences of causing death by dangerous driving, dangerous driving, careless and inconsiderate driving apply to driving on a ‘road or other public place’, where previously such offences had applied only to driving on a ‘road’.
The Motor Vehicles (Compulsory Insurance) Regulations 2000, SI 2000/726, have extended to a road ‘or other public place’ the duty:
to provide your name and address and produce documents to a constable
to stop and report an accident
to have car insurance for your vehicle
Roads in factory premises?
A road within the fenced boundaries of a factory (being a protected place), the factory being accessible only to those with a special pass, was held not to be within this definition (O’Brien v Trafalgar Insurance Co Ltd (1945) 109 JP 107).
Roads in dock premises?
Similarly, in Buchanan v Motor Insurers’ Bureau [1955] 1 All ER 607, 119 JP 227, it was held that a road in a dock area was not a road within this definition, the general public having no access thereto as a matter of legal right or by tolerance.
Is the footpath a ‘road’?
It is irrelevant whether the way is a road within the ordinary meaning of the word; therefore, a footpath which is a highway is a road within the meaning of s 192(1) (Lang v Hindhaugh [1986] RTR 271).
The inclusion of a lane as a ‘footpath’ on a definitive map drawn up under a National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 will not in itself extinguish ancient vehicular rights (Suffolk County Council v Mason (1977) Times, 16 March)
Is the grass verge a ‘road’?
Even if the grass verge is behind a safety barrier it is a road, if it is maintained by the highway authority as part of the public highway the reason for the crash barrier is for safety reasons and not to limit the road, (Alun Griffith (Contractors) Ltd v Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency [2009] EWHC 3132 (Admin), [2010] RTR 7).
Do airports have ‘public roads’?
By virtue of s 66 of the Airports Act 1986, all road traffic laws apply to roads within aerodromes owned or managed by the British Airports Authority, even though the public does not have access to such roads.
The Secretary of State can direct that any such roads in aerodromes are subject to general traffic laws.
What about the grounds of private hotels?
In Bugge v Taylor [1941] 1 KB 198, 104 JP 467, it was held that the private forecourt of a hotel to which the public had access was a road.
Compare, however, an unpaved forecourt to a shop, unfenced from pavement but habitually crossed by customers was not a “road” in the decision of Thomas v Dando [1951] 2 KB 620, [1951] 1 All ER 1010, 115 JP 344,
Do caravan parks contain ‘public roads’?
A caravan park has been held to be a place to which the public have access and therefore are ‘roads’
The question to be asked is whether people admitted formed a ‘special class’ :
passing through a screening process for a reason
on account of some characteristic personal to themselves,
or were just members of the public being processed simply so as to make them subject to payment etc
by the landowner (DPP v Vivier [1991] 4 All ER 18, [1991] RTR 205, DC; see also R v Spence (1999) 163 JP 754, [1999] RTR 353, CA).
Also, see Dunmill v DPP [2004] EWHC 1700 (Admin) and Barrett v DPP [2009] EWHC 423, [2010] RTR 2 where there was a tarmac perimeter road around the caravan site and “grass roadways” between the caravan sites. Here it was held the defendant was not driving on a ‘road’ within the camp site (though he could have been charged with driving on an “other public place”). 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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2nd Jul 2019 12:06 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14429
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Wrong thread. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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2nd Jul 2019 12:56 am |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2704
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DG wrote:Please continue testing your theory
It isnt a theory, it is fact and everything above stands!...its perfectly fine
I wouldn't even worry about running it parked on the road either. I'm not going to get drawn any more though, as i know 100% im right and its pointless. But for continual clarity - although not a road, that debate is pointless, not unattended, not unsafe or not monitored, not unnecessary either and the engine running is not used in this context. the vehicle isnt running
But i will assume, to air on the side of caution, you will not run you Park Heater. Certainly not sit in a car with the engine running or anything else given your worry Mike
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2nd Jul 2019 8:01 am |
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