Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
FIXED! Cam pulley snapped! Not as bad as it could be!
Hi guys, I had to get the disco recovered this week due to it cutting out on a busy a road and failing to start again properly. It did fire briefly but was very lumpy and as soak as drive was engaged it would stall.
Suspected it may be fuel or air related perhaps?
Have read the faults but nothing is showing that is giving any indiacations which is making me think that perhaps it’s the low pressure fuel system after reading through various threads.
I have got around to looking today, first job was to replace the fuel filter juts in case, didn’t solve the problem although I think it may have improved slightly as it seems to run (sort of) now but no increase in revs with foot full on throttle abs stalls as soon as it goes into drive.
I have checked the fuse for lpfp and it’s good and there is good voltage on the outbound side. I have tested the current draw by taking out the relay and bridging the relay pins 3 and 5 and it showing a little less than 4 amps. I think I’m reading that with ignition off that by bridging the relay I should get significantly more than that if the lpfp is healthy?
I’m thinking that Inhave found the culprit but before t
I bite the bullet and order the pump can anyone else offer any more advice?
Ta in advance
Jon2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
Last edited by garnerj on 12th Feb 2021 3:04 pm. Edited 3 times in total
19th Dec 2020 12:35 pm
garnerj
Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
Well, a new pump didn’t fix it and I’m at a loss now so I guess it’s off to the indie it goes for someone with more knowledge than me to diagnose!2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
22nd Dec 2020 6:50 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14120
Hi
Know there’s many others here considerably more experienced than myself but was wondering what pressure did u get at the fuel shrieder valve at the back of the engine plse
Plus have all the timing / fuel pump belt been replaced / checked
With diagnostics will it give u live data so u can see what the fuel pressures are
Hope that helps
Ps, useless bit of info but the D3 is called an LR3 in the USA
22nd Dec 2020 6:57 pm
garnerj
Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
Cheers gstuart
I had a steady flow of fuel at the schreader valve but waiting on delivery of my gauge to test it properly and get an accurate reading.
Belts and tensioners etc were all done about 20k ago but that’s. Good call and I will see if I can get to the back abs check that one. I would have thought if that was the issue then I would have seen some faults on the HP side but I guess maybe not! I’m going to start taking a look at the values on the dish’s tomorrow too to see that the hp side is showing.
The write up you linked is great, that’s where I got my info in current draw etc.
My gut feel is that it’s still something on the lpfp side somehow but my buddy who is a truck mechanic has his money on the rear belt after a chat with him tonight.
The investigation continues. 2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
22nd Dec 2020 8:37 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2889
Also possibly a snapped cam chain, does it feel like its running on 3 cylinders when it does run?
Pop the oil filler off and take a look inside if the cam is turning when the engine is turned over - the one on the other side (passenger side bank) is a bit more difficult but a code reader will possibly help there as I think you may get a sensor timing fault (not 100% sure though)Must stop buying shiny toys....
22nd Dec 2020 10:06 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
There seems to me to be a diagnostics issue here as there should be something logged given what the OP has said.
You were almost there Darrind, Indeed cam sensor is on the p/s bank but it takes it's reference from the primary cam sprocket, so even if the chain on that bank had snapped it will have no effect on the signals to the cam sensor. The cam belt would have to snap to show a trigger fault!
Good thinking though
garnej, can I ask what diagnostics are you using?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
23rd Dec 2020 1:06 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2889
Couldn’t remember which it was on on the passenger side as it was raining hard last time I had the top off one so didn’t hang around
Having one with a snapped driver side Chan though I know what happens on that side Must stop buying shiny toys....
23rd Dec 2020 3:30 pm
garnerj
Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
Update
OK Folks, sorry I have been a bit quite on this one!
Tested the fuel pump and although it was a little weak it was more than enough. The plot definitely thickens though.
Battery was of course flay so i gave that a good charge. Went out there to try again just in case and this time it really didnt sound well at all. Turned it straight off again, quick visual at the engine bay and not great. It does appear that the cambelt cover on the drivers side now has a big crack in it (def didnt before this last start attempt. Big enough to see that there i no belt on the drivers side cam pulley!
The engine did run when it was started but terribly and didn't sound nice at all. I suspect this one could be the documented tensioner issues on the oil pump casing. i will be proper if it is as I specifically asked my indie to make sure I had the later oil pump on when doing the belts otherwise replace it. Time will tell I guess but it certainly isn't going anywhere soon!
I'm pretty sure this will be a "how longs a piece of string" type question but can anyone hazard a guess to what damage and how much may have been done. Ill try and summarise the timeline to assist but I'm worried if the initial fault was caused by this then its had quite a few restart attempts to try and fix it.
Driving home one day the car cut out and stalled just as I was pulling away from a standstill in town.
Car appeared to restart but not really and would be very lumpy and stall almost immediately, as if it was getting no fuel or only running on 3.
No faults showing using my lynx diagnostics.
Car was recovered home.
Took to the forum (thanks guys) and initial thought (because no faults showing) was that it was the low pressure fuel side of things.
Changed fuel filter as I had a spare and the issues seemed to improve but far from fixed, seemed to now run with foot on the throttle which it would not do before. No obvious noise other than the fact it was spluttering a bit. Still no codes showing.
A few tests showing that the current draw for the LPFP was a little low so I decided to swap it out for a known good one from a local breakers (tested it before installing and was good flow rate). Same issues once installed, I have since tested the pump I took out as well which also has a good flow rate.
Pressure gauge arrived and I am seeing about 7psi on the scraeder valve on the engine so I thijn I have decided its not fuel.
Battery needed a charge so I got that out and charged it.
First attempt to start and it sounded terrible! I killed it straight away, it was running but only with foot on throttle.
Checked engine bay and can now see a bloody great crack on the drivers side timing belt cover at front! Big enough to see that there is no belt on the pulley! Oh dear!
My thought is that the belt is still in there and on something as the engine runs but just terribly so Im thinking it sounds like the tensioner may have gone and cased the belt to pop off the pulley and trash the case, What are the experts thoughts?
Also, not being a mechanic my knowledge is a little limited but if it is the belt off just one side, does that mean the damage will be less than a belt failure, or is it just as likley that both sides will be scrap due to the slackness of belt. Im going to go ready the codes again shortly just in case I am now seeing something, also got hold of an IID tool as well as the lynx so that may show me something else.
Im going to start to strip it down myself as well and see if I can see the root of the issue (Im not technical enough to know the extent of the damage) but I cant get it into the indie until 5th Jan so I wanted to try and do something before then if I can.
As always with me, any words of wisdom are very much appreciated, as it a bit of sarcasm, mick taking and anything else that goes with it.
Belts were done about 20-30K ago so I suspect its not the belt that ahs gone but you never know I guess!2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
26th Dec 2020 12:51 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
Oh that's not good at all. Strip off the front of the engine accessories removing air intake pipe, plenum chamber, fan, aux belt and tensioners, heater hoses, crank pulley etc and the cover is the easily removed.
I have no doubt you know well by now what you are going to see once it's removed. If there is damage it will most likely be to the valves, the camshafts and bearing caps, or both from the pistons striking them.
You will need to remove the oil pump if its the old type, and you might as well remove the injectors and the entire top of engine components to get the inlet manifolds out.
It's the only way you're going to see for certain what camshaft/bearing cap damage there is.
Forget about diagnostic codes or turning it over any further as you are well beyond that now.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
26th Dec 2020 2:38 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10674
If it runs there is hope.
Don’t start again though.
Yeah get the fan and cambelt cover off and see what’s going on
May need to put a 2nd hand head on it, which are about £100 on eBay.
Gaskets, head bolts, and stuff add up though.
26th Dec 2020 2:52 pm
garnerj
Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
Thanks guys, I’m airing on the side of leaving well alone and letting my indie pull it apart. It was them that fitted the belts so for any chance to them covering any of the costs I figure it may be best if they pull it apart!
Although I’m keen so see what’s gone abs not sure I can wait 2 weeks!
2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
26th Dec 2020 3:10 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
You could just pull the front off yourself it's not difficult, that way you can at least see if they fitted the upgraded oil pump as requested by you.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
26th Dec 2020 3:19 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Did the original invoice show a new oil pump fitted?
26th Dec 2020 8:23 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20839
Member Since: 21 Nov 2018
Location: Milton keynes
Posts: 145
I’m the invoice def doesn’t show new oil
Pump and one was def not fitted. The conversation with my indie was along the lines of, when you do the belt, if it’s got the old pump then please swap it at the same time as doing the belt, if it’s the new style pump then no need. I suspect that either got lost in translation of juts forgotten. Or perhaps it was the new style one. I guess I will know when I pull it all apart. Decided I’m gunna do that as soon as the weather is now enough as I don’t have a garage I can get it into right now to be dry!
It’s being fixed whatever as I have spent a lot of time and effort on other bits so it’s a case of fix the engine or replace it I guess.
When the front is stripped I will report back to discuss what my next steps are. There is a small
Part of Me tempted to strip the front down strip the damaged parts off, see how clean it turns by hand and if I’m there is no issue and it spins as it should I’m tempted to set the timing, put it all back together and close my eyes abs pray to the big man while I turn it over again. I may be extremely lucky you never know. The other half of me thinks just leave it to the experts as I don’t really know why I’m doing! Lol2008 Disco3 2.7 Tdv6 HSE
2011 L322 Range Rover 4.4 Tdv8 Vogue SE
2002 P38 Range Rover 4.6 V8 Vogue Se
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Indeed cam sensor is on the p/s bank but it takes it's reference from the primary cam sprocket, so even if the chain on that bank had snapped it will have no effect on the signals to the cam sensor. The cam 
if it is as I specifically asked my indie to make sure I had the later oil pump on when doing the belts otherwise replace it. Time will tell I guess but it certainly isn't going anywhere soon!
that's not good at all. Strip off the front of the engine accessories removing air intake pipe, plenum chamber, fan, aux belt and tensioners, heater hoses, crank pulley etc and the cover is the easily removed.
