Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14416
Revisionist history
I like to think i'm an open minded, tolerant and free thinking person that respects people irrespective of gender, race, colour, sexuality, religion etc etc.
However, I get really fed up with this whole revisionist change culture movement that want to push today's values on yesterday's. I agree Cecil Rhodes was a racist colonialist but rather than get excited about a statue i'd rather his presence was used to educate people and put things in context.
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20th May 2021 6:10 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
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But Moo, you're like me. We're dinosaurs. Hence we dont understand it. Wrong age, wrong education. Not enough time to consider these feelings.......
20th May 2021 7:10 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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What is more worrying than the removal of statues is the removal of those Museum trustees or board members tasked with ensuring that the darker side of these characters is conveyed to give balance. A number have been removed in the last month.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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20th May 2021 7:53 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
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I presume the government's freedom of speech legislation for universities will address some of the issues.
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20th May 2021 8:19 pm
nigethecat
Member Since: 11 Sep 2016
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If you start by removing what some perceive to be objectionable statues, then what next? Burning books that are equally objectionable? We all know what that led to... history is there to learnt from not to hide away...I want to see the sweets before I get into your windowless van... I'm not stupid!
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20th May 2021 8:34 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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True, but only if you make all of the history available to learn from 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
It is a very nuanced thing. I fear that History is so poorly taught (or read by people for its own sake) that only 'headline' views apply. The same with Churchill: greatest ever Briton? Racist? Cannot both views be true at the same time but reflect different facets of the same person? It is important to be able to look back and think about why Mr Rhodes, et al were hailed as great, why Rule Britannia has been sung for generations, why Cromwell has a statue. We all mature / progress / develop - who can show a photo of themselves as a teenager and say they haven't changed? Universitiies / cities / countries are no different.
Look at the list of Rhodes Scholars: a list of people that includes some of the most influential, positive, progressive and effective people on the planet - do they get "erased" too? Is the nett effect of Rhodes' life still negative?
What is the time-period of this revisionist crap? Anything older than 100 years is fair game? Ten years? Everything must reflect a daily opinion poll?
If a person cannot stand and disagree with someone and say "you are wrong" then there is inequality. Air-brushing of history is the same thing.
Yet another sign that the lunatics are taking over the asylum.... Actually, I find it rather sinister - yet another aspect of the intolerant view that "you have the right to free speech - as long as we agree with it". Is this me being offended? Shucks! Gee, maybe I can have an -ism named after me!
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If you start by removing what some perceive to be objectionable statues, then what next? Burning books that are equally objectionable? We all know what that led to... history is there to learnt from not to hide away...
That's the back-story to Fahrenheit 451: start editing-out the "offensive" bits and eventually you decide that it is the books themselves that cause offence. I am quite surprised that 2020 didn't include book-burnings.
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20th May 2021 8:52 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2592
I learnt slavery at school and I can't recall any history being undertaken on Churchill. Also 99% sure that I read Roots for English. I also learnt about the workhouse,poverty, the tolpuddle martys and British Colonialism, and imposing the our will on other nations.
Nothing was taught in a good light but more of a start, an evolution and an redirection as one learns from history and our past mistakes.
Changing the perception of what was taught to suit today's agenda is disingenuous
Only yesterday did I discover that in 1833 the British government took out loans amounting to 40% of GDP to compensate the owners of slaves when slavery was abolished (the slaves didn't get anything). These were finally repaid in 2015. Factcheck. They didn't teach me that at school.
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