Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
Spotted in St Abbs- Euan Gibson in his new car!
We’ve been staying in the caravan in St Abbs for the past few days, and of course met up with my good friend and forum stalwart Euan Gibson, who like me had a Discovery 3, then a 4 and who also like me never quite thought that D5 was a worthy replacement. We both kept out D4’s as long as we could, and only got rid when things started to fail. For me it was a split manifold, for Euan it was engine work requiring a Disco Mikey body removal.
I bought a Defender D300 x dynamic HSE. He bought a BMW X5 45E plug in hybrid. Both were around the same price point, after the discount that Euan got on the BMW.
We both had a go in each others cars. I found the Beemer surprisingly good. The ride is impeccable despite the 22”wheels which I thought would give a harsh feel. It has a 6 cylinder 3 litre engine and 100hp of electric power.
The car has a very impressive turn of speed when needed, and seamless transition from electric to petrol and back. Range on electric only is about 60 miles. Interior is typical bmw with quite a complex infotainment system. There are a lot of buttons around the rear of the gear selector which were tricky to use without taking eyes off the road. Split tailgate is excellent. Gesture opening/closing with a swipe of the foot seems to work reliably. The interior is very stylish with an angular feel to everything, and ambient lighting, heated armrests, and wireless charging with CarPlay.
One thing that did strike me was how light the doors felt in comparison to the heavy doors on the Defender. Not as satisfying a thunk to them though!
Euan had a decent drive and was impressed with my Defender. He was surprised at its power from low revs and the way it picked up and accelerated. He also liked the purposeful sound of the engine. He did say that it gave a very satisfying commanding driving position that compared well with the Discovery 3/4. The surround cameras were also very impressive. Obviously a much chunkier feel to it.
I do like the idea of a plug in hybrid. BMW did initially launch the X5 phev with a 2 litre 4 cylinder petrol, but quickly changed to a 6 cylinder 3 litre, which seems to be selling well.
Obviously the Defender is aimed at those who might want to go off road but also has very decent road manners, but the BMW is certainly a driving machine at heart. It does have air suspension and basic hdc if you did want to put a 22” wheel into the mud!
Hoping that LR can get their act together and come up with a decent phev version. Might even temp me into an early change from the D300.
It’s been a pleasure staying here and thanks for all your hospitality👍
19th Jul 2021 6:26 pm
KevinD3
Member Since: 05 Aug 2020
Location: Sutton Coldfield
Posts: 1277
Member Since: 12 Mar 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 1739
^^What LR isn't!!Today is the oldest you've been and the youngest you'll ever be again.
19th Jul 2021 7:39 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26779
Yes I know there are phev versions available, I’ve yet to drive one so probably shouldn’t comment. Deliveries only just commenced.
19th Jul 2021 8:54 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
Max 27 miles on electric only mode though, which doesn’t compare favourably with the Beemer. Albeit they are totally different vehicles anyway.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
19th Jul 2021 9:01 pm
RogB
Member Since: 15 Jun 2018
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 1738
when i had my LRE feebie day in the 2.0 Defender ICE there was also a RRS PHEV behind. They had major problems with it continually switching between ICE and electric causing the car to jump on changeover.
The instructor said it was a known issue as the car was confused with continual low speeds when off road coupled with slightly higher speeds on flatter sections and kept trying to switch between the two. Im not aware if you can turn off the electric motors to avoid this when off road.2011 D4 XS 305 MY12 - gone but not forgotten
20th Jul 2021 6:30 am
seer
Member Since: 23 Sep 2014
Location: herts
Posts: 113
The Law of unintended consequences
Neighbour was invited to a Land Rover/Jaguar "try out our new electric/hybrid offerings" day where they tried to persuade him to upgrade his, not very old, top of the range RR to a Jaguar i-pace or similar.
Also had some of the opposition there to compare. He tried them all,...........
.........came away and bought an Audi e tron. Loves it!
Whoops.
I shall wait for hydrogen - perhaps get Lord Bamford to shoe horn one of his JCB offerings into my D4.
21st Jul 2021 11:19 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73121
Did I see something in the media that all LR output would be leckie only by 2025?
A RRS PHEV behind had major problems with it continually switching between ICE and electric causing the car to jump on changeover.
The instructor said it was a known issue as the car was confused with continual low speeds when off road coupled with slightly higher speeds on flatter sections and kept trying to switch between the two.
Mercedes have a similar, well known, problem with their C350E Hybrid:-
Quote:
When car is changing from electric to petrol this transition it is so brutal , sometimes doesn’t want to accelerate even . I read few posts but information it is confusing . Now sometimes I have even malfunction warning in dash 🥲 .
In petrol is doing perfect no issues or on electric mode only . Only problem is transition in Hybrid , E-Save from electric to petrol
I am increasingly of the opinion that I won't be going for an EV or Hybrid from anyone other than Lexus/Toyota I noted that Self-charging hybrid electric models from Lexus and Toyota have registered perfect 100 per cent scores in the 2019 What Car? Reliability Survey.
The latest 2020 What Car? Reliability Survey is almost as good:-
1. Toyota Yaris 2011-2020 99.5%
2. Lexus NX 2014-on 99.3%
3. Toyota RAV4 2019-on 99.2%
4. Lexus RX 2016-on 99.1%
5. Toyota Corolla 2018-on 98.4%
I have to say I like the look of the 2022 Lexus NX450h+ plug-in hybrid.
NJSS
21st Jul 2021 11:40 am
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2607
That's interesting. I've never found the change that bad, but both our hybrids are / were CVTs. CVT on the other hand is a gearbox you never get use to.
The GTE with the DSG box was pretty seamless but slightly more noticeable when switching. However sometimes the only sure way to tell was to check the rev counter.
21st Jul 2021 12:34 pm
nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1359
We had both the BMW X5 E45 and the Defender D300 at this years Tow Car Awards. Whilst I cannot go into any results here (as they haven’t been announced publicly yet), what I will say is that even towing a 1900Kg Adria caravan, the acceleration of the BMW was phenomenal.
21st Jul 2021 4:36 pm
euangibson
Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027
I’ve updated elsewhere, but thought you’d like to see this
I promise I won’t turn this into a regular X5 blog
Just a little update, a month into ownership.
I have covered 760 miles, and averaged a frankly staggering 78.2mpg. Most of the miles (530) have been short journeys, and been on electric only, which is the reason I bought the car in the first place.
For something with 400-odd bhp, with performance figures to match (it really is quick), that is pretty astonishing when you take into account it only weighs around 150kg less than my D4. (250 kg more than an X5 30D due to the weight of the batteries)
I still have between a half and a quarter tank of petrol left too, so I haven’t even had to go to a petrol station since the initial fill-up which makes a pleasant change
I’ve worked out a full charge costs me about £3, and gets me 55 miles of pure electric. However, I’m getting a lot more than that, as the car charges on the move, when braking and lifting off the accelerator, even in Sport mode when it’s running on petrol only.
“Official” WLTP figures are something nonesense like 238 mpg, which we all know is unachievable, but I can’t argue with over 78 mpg in something that weighs 2.5 tonnes.
Having to plug it in every night hasn’t been the chore I was worried it would be either.
The car itself might not be to everyone’s taste, but there’s no denying the technology, and the way it’s been developed into the car is very very impressive.
If this was available in a RRS, or Full Fat, I’d probably still be in a LR today…..JLR really need to get this going.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...
Locking rear E-diff
RLD spare wheel protector & sump guard
Extended roof rails
Series 111 mudflaps
Black side tubes,grill and vents
Timed climate remote
Hids4u interior lights
D4 Firenze my2012 HSE
D3 Java 2005 SE manual (sold,sadly,thanks for the memories)
1966 '88 Series 2a....still starts in the morning better than I do...
6th Aug 2021 12:28 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2607
Nice update Euan.
I can echo most of that apart from the power on tap. We ran a PHEV for 6 years but little choice in the SUV market back in 2015.
We charged overnight on economy 7 so was paying around 8 or 9p per Kw. The combination in the BMW is perfect and I agree if this was echoed by LR then I would be changing my P400 order for that very specification.......... as long as the boot floor was flat.
6th Aug 2021 12:41 pm
euangibson
Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027
I wish we had “white meter” or Economy 7, as the bulk of my charging would be even cheaper
BMW initially brought out the 40E hybrid, but the 2l four-pot ICE wasn’t warmly received, so they put the 3l straight 6 in when they introduced the new model…..much nicer
I’m sure the RR P400e is a lovely thing, but the sales figures suggest buyers aren't completely ready for 4cyl engines in large SUV/4x4s yet….it has to come, although with hybrids only having a 5 year stay of execution over diesel/petrol powered cars, it might not be worth manufacturers developing the technology, in terms of return on investment
I do lose a little boot space due to the batteries, and there is a tiny ‘lip’ at the back where the floor rises, but it doesn’t impact on loading, and I don’t even notice it day-to-day"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...
Locking rear E-diff
RLD spare wheel protector & sump guard
Extended roof rails
Series 111 mudflaps
Black side tubes,grill and vents
Timed climate remote
Hids4u interior lights
D4 Firenze my2012 HSE
D3 Java 2005 SE manual (sold,sadly,thanks for the memories)
1966 '88 Series 2a....still starts in the morning better than I do...
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