Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
BigandScottish wrote:
Got same fault
randomly gets transmission fail, 3 amigos, looses power , suspension drops - restart and its fine??
same codes p0087
loss of comms to several ecu's
p2290-00 injector pressure too low
p000E-22 fuel volume control exceeds limit
been to 2 specialists both changed fuel filter, 2nd did housing and filter and a leaky injector, has had new brake switch about 6 years ago - wondering if i should change that to eliminate it? brake lights work and filaments look ok
had a replacement terrain switch about 6 yrs ago also - wife was fiddling with this the other week and just read that could also be an issue??? had a twiddle and checked all modes - appears to be working ok?
Hi
If your only getting low fuel pressure fault codes straight after the car goes in to limp mode then it’s probably more an issue with the direct fuel system / sensor or pumps rather then brakes / lights
Do you have access to a diagnostic tool to see the real time fuel pressure on the rail to see if it’s actually running too low at different rpm ranges ? This would help determine if there’s a physical problem with the pressure or if there is another factor causing your car to drop in to limp mode masking as a low fuel pressure fault.
7th Mar 2024 8:59 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 179
I would use an oscilloscope to monitor rail pressure signala and the fcu on the hp pump. Sounds to me like an erroneous signal causing pressure changes when they are not needed. The engine will diesel knock if the hp,pump is run at full flow, ie the fcu is disconnected. Seen this type of issue and component replacements many times on ag mqchines. 99% have ended up being a poor connection or damaged wire.
7th Mar 2024 9:38 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Hi! jimbob42
To be honest your probably spot on I’ve been hoping it’s a simple wiring fault but the Land Rover dealer has insisted on changing both pumps instead and now the car has been siting at the dealer for over two months now waiting for them to change the wiring from the hp pump to the ecu , they have tested this wiring from both ends of the plugs but don’t think they have tested the signals whilst the car is running like you suggested which would seem better and easier than just guessing and replacing the wiring !
It dose seem like there is constant signal disruption making the pump go more pressure less pressure more pressure less pressures.
And the car is definitely worse the longer it’s been running / when it warms up “ like a wiring fault the master technician admitted to me !
And I would also definitely say that some days it runs quieter than others defo more knocking some days
And bad signals would also explain why some months the car goes in limp mode for high fuel pressure then the next it’s bad to having low fuel pressure for almost no reason!
thank for your help !
7th Mar 2024 10:20 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 179
Parts cannon is the norm sadly. I had to deal with countless similar situations in a previous job. Even if you identify the wires at ecu and sensor then run new wires just laying them over the top it will quickly tell you. Ours even be female pins opened up in a connector and a high resistance. Seen that plenty as well!
7th Mar 2024 10:26 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Hi
Yes the parts cannon is so easy for them when the car is diagnosed by a technician then given to a lower mechanic to fit the parts then when it’s still broken a week later passed back up to another technician who diagnoses another part needing replaced then passed back to a lower mechanical and then eventually your car gets classed by all staff as “ ohhh yeah that one “ then you get allocated to a master technician!!!!
Who are always fully booked for months in advanced !
But yeah this master technician wants to run temporary wires just for testing really and hopefully it’ll find the fault
The body’s been of the car twice in the time I’ve had it so could of damaged wiring then
And apparently if two damaged wires touch together they will create a good reading according to the master technician who has tested the wiring but all seemed fine.
7th Mar 2024 10:57 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 179
He’s right, only real way is temp wires. As they mis diagnosed it you shouldn’t be paying for parts they didn’t fix it though.
7th Mar 2024 11:06 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Haha yeah hopefully they’ll be right eventually!
yes paying for them to just guess isn't very fun especially at £180 an hour !
Well they haven’t been to bad to deal with really tho first bill I payed in full before finding out the car only drove 30 miles before going back in limp mode !
So they took it back second, bill after they couldn’t fix it and had to return the car I only had to pay for the parts at trade price which wasn't so bad
And now the third bill will be completely free if the fault is something they missed the first two times.
But at the moment they are “ completely overwhelmed with breakdowns daily “ seems every Land Rover in the far north of Scotland is braking down just now so god know when they’ll get back to mine !
8th Mar 2024 10:54 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
James M wrote:
Hi ! PROFSR G
Thanks for you reply
Ohh yes I have seen Disco mikey recommended and committing regularly on this forum but I am about 280 miles away but at least I could drop his a message regarding the matter as long as he likes head scratching nightmares of cars !
I have also seen you committing great information on similar fuel pressure issues and meany other matters on this forum so was wondering what you think of this query I have noticed with this Range Rover sport in question using an iid tool compared to are second car a discovery 3 is that with the tool showing fuel rail pressure but only with ignition on the rail pressure on the running perfectly D3 is showing “ 350 kpa “ but on said Range Rover sport with the low pressure issue with only ignition one it’s showing exactly 1000 kpa?.
Just wondering what your thought were for this reading ?
Thanks
James
280 miles from Dundee? Is it possible to be that far away and still in Scotland? Where are you Orkney's?
I should have mentioned earlier that I do not know DM personally, but he does have a very high regard on here, and that doesn't just fall out of the sky!!
Anyway, can you provide the codes or carry out any tests yourself? It's often difficult to be accurate when responding remotely when you don't have the car in front of you. So members have to base a reply solely on the information provided, which can sometimes be missing critical but glaringly obvious detail.
With that in mind if you a scan of all modules and post the codes here. Also, if you can confirm whether the HPFP replaced was new or or reconditioned would be helpful. By the way, the absolute minimum pressure just to get a 2.7 TDV6 injector to fire is 150 Bar. So something is definitely not right with either the car or the diagnostic data!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Mar 2024 1:24 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Hi
Ahh make that 235 miles from Dundee , but your right no far from Orkney !
Well the car is currently sitting at the Land Rover dealer which is over 100 miles away from me ,but I do have all the codes it’s ever thrown but currently it’s only showing 1 fault code for the engine, which is surprising really ! That the engine only has one fault.
P0087-00 (28) fuel rail/system pressure - too low
And some times it also throws
P000E-22 (6c) fuel volume regulator control exceeded learning limit - Gen signal failure
P2290-00 (2c) injector control pressure too low
P0088-00 (28) fuel rail/system pressure too high
P0191-24 (68) fuel rail pressure sensor range/performance
P0101-17 (68) mass or volume air flow - circuit range/performance
The first high pressure pump it has was fitted by me and it was a new VDO pump and then about two years later the Land Rover dealer fitted another new pump at a grand cost of £1517.58 -£350 surcharge so £1365 and thankfully I can claim the vat back as well !
But yeah that 1000 kpa reading is only when the ignition is on not cranking the engine, but once you start cranking that number rapidly climbs and the car only needs less than 3 turns of the engine to start from cold , it’s always been very fast to start strangely
8th Mar 2024 7:12 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
Quite a lot going on there and some contradictory codes as well. Were any of them historical or did they all pop up at the same time? Knowing this helps narrow it down a bit!
P0101 is the MAF sensor, but it has no bearing on the fuel system faults. The one thing that jumps out here is P0191, the FRPS and I assume you have not replaced this! LR only sell it as a complete rail unit because Siemens say it must not be opened and only sold complete. It can however be found online without the rail, you just have to be careful it's the correct one.
If there was a surcharge on the garage fitted pump it's likely they fitted a recon unit, so I'm wondering if the discarded new VDO fitted by you was the better pump! Recon pumps can be poorly rebuilt which is why I never fit them due to the time and hassle involved.
It's a pity you're not in a position to provide live data from the car and carry out some elemental tests. In the absence of which I would suggest start with the FRPS and if that fails consider a brand new HPFP. The low pressure pump is not logged as an issue with the codes you provided.
Sorry I can't offer anything more substantial. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Mar 2024 10:05 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Hi
Well all those fault codes are what the car has generated over 3 years but the only code it generates when it goes in to limp mode now is the p0087-00.
The map sensor code used to keep popping up occasionally even after fitting two new sensor.
It haven’t thrown a FRPS fault code in over a year but when it was at a specialist they just swapped the sensor with a aftermarket one just for testing really but made no difference so they refitted the original one.
I would hope they haven’t fitted a recon pump as ever recon parts I’ve fitted to this car hasn’t lasted 5 minutes before having to buy genuine parts.
Well the fault started the same day as I fitted that new VDO pump so that’s why I let them change it for another new one but made no difference and the dealer was almost about to change the pump again but decided that the fault was still identical and both old and new pump was giving the same pressure grafts.
But yeah still waiting for them to replace the wiring between the hp pump and ecu.
I do have a few graphs if you want to look at them.
It shows a 0/60 you could call it but of course the car can’t do that with out going in limp mode first
As the graph shows it acceleration for about 3 seconds before going in limp mode and slowing down.
8th Mar 2024 10:47 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Click image to enlarge
8th Mar 2024 10:47 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
So if the low pressure side is showing 0.5 bar on a pressure gauge then there shouldn’t be any reason why the engine isn't getting enough fuel but it does feel like that when test driving it
And why else wouldn’t it be able to build fuel pressure when accelerating if it’s getting enough fuel from the low side what else could be wrong with the high side when it’s a brand new high pressures pump defo not a recon one as I check with them , a new fuel pressure sensor , new injections , new wiring plugs with all pump and sensor wiring testing fine why won’t it just build pressure properly?
9th Sep 2024 4:07 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5040
I see you're still struggling with this, is the car going into limp mode and what codes are popping up now?
0.5 Bar is the regulated supply pressure so that's correct.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
9th Sep 2024 6:05 pm
James M
Member Since: 19 Dec 2023
Location: Scotland
Posts: 26
Hi thanks for replying yes car is still at the dealer , I am realy feeling sorry to the technician now as he’s saying it’s one of the worst car he’s ever seen.
Yes it always go in limp mode usually between 50/70 mph
But if you do a standing start foot to the floor it’ll only do hardest acceleration for 3/4 seconds before straight in to limp mode every time never getting 30/40 mph
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Where are you Orkney's?
, but your right no far from Orkney !
