NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
  
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Hi all,
I use my 150k Disco 4 to provide private tours of the NC500. As such, it makes a lot of short duration journeys and spends a great deal of time at low revs at <30mph whilst travelling the single track roads. It has its oil and filter changed every 5000 miles and yet I still regularly get soot contamination build up of between 1.5% and 3% (2% being the critical level). For those that don't know, soot acts as an abrasive paste when contamination levels rise too far.
Therefore, I have decided to install a bypass oil filter to the oil system in addition to the existing full flow oil filter (see video)
I intend to route the take off from the oil pressure switch using a splitter and routing the clean oil return line via the oil extraction port. Has anyone else fitted a bypass oil system? If so, any other locations I should/could consider?
Thanks
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 9th Sep 2023 8:38 am |
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thisandy
Member Since: 28 Jan 2018
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 298
 
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Are you planning to run the filter while driving or just when parked.Would there be loss of pressure and volume of oil during engine running.
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| 9th Sep 2023 5:51 pm |
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NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
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It’s in use when the engine runs. The bypass filter takes a litre of oil so the volume added at oil change would need to be increased. No change in oil pressure.
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| 10th Sep 2023 6:52 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10502
 
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The video says that the filter removes water; but where does that water go? Is it retained in the filter?
Good luck - an interesting project.
NJSS
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| 10th Sep 2023 8:15 am |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 767
 
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Would it not be easier to simply change oil every 2.5k miles ?
Have you checked your injectors ?
Every 2nd change on mine, i would flush it twice with 3liters of oil, just to clear what's left in the gallery's and cooler, the normal drain and refill dose not get it all out.
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| 10th Sep 2023 9:45 am |
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NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
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NJSS wrote:The video says that the filter removes water; but where does that water go? Is it retained in the filter?
Good luck - an interesting project.
NJSS
The filter is cellulose which absorbs the water
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| 11th Sep 2023 2:52 pm |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12711
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How long timewise is your 5k oil change?
Would it not be easier, as suggested, to go down to 2.5k ? Or, given yours is a D4 and needs unobtainium C1 oil, syphon 1/2 of it out once a month and top-up with nice clean stuff. .
Dean
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer  ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
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| 11th Sep 2023 4:58 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8109
 
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or use low box every 3rd trip! It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 11th Sep 2023 7:39 pm |
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NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
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Hardware wrote:How long timewise is your 5k oil change?
Would it not be easier, as suggested, to go down to 2.5k ? Or, given yours is a D4 and needs unobtainium C1 oil, syphon 1/2 of it out once a month and top-up with nice clean stuff.
An oil change happens every 6 weeks or so. The whole reason for the install of the bypass filter is to extend oil changes and reduce cost. Reducing intervals will do the opposite and increase costs!
The bypass system is £270 including hoses and connectors. I believe extending the oil changes to 8k intervals will reduce my annual oil and filter costs by 40% and so the payback period will be about a year. I’ll be quids in thereafter PLUS I will have zero contaminants in the oil and thus extend engine life.
Win, win
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| 11th Sep 2023 8:40 pm |
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Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 348
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Interestingly I am looking at bypass oil filtration at work for compressors and gas turbines. The 3 micron nominal and 1 micron ultimate filtration and water removal makes me think that the filter element is the same cellulose element that the various vendors are trying to punt at me commercially.
Some thoughts:
1/. Water removal - irrelevant, unless you sink your car.
2/. You might find that you start to strip the oil additives out of the oil at 1 micron. Advise I have been given is to change 20% of the oil every so long. Not got to the bottom of this yet.
3/. What flow rate will this take - you are robbing some of the oil that would have gone to the bearings. I'd want to see an electric oil pump drawing separately from the sump and returning to the sump so that the oil system is not interfered with.
Wondering what the root cause of the soot issue you have is. Is it poor filtration? Or is is the duty cycle of the engine, i.e. frequent short journeys so engine does not warm up and DPF does not regen properly? If so not sure the filter will solve this. I'd want be more inclined to look at a remote operated block heater (the FBH) so that the engine is warm and not cold starting - gives reduced fuel dilution of oil and reduced cylinder bore wear & go for a 45 min run once a month to make sure it gets hot and regens the DPF. Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
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| 11th Sep 2023 9:21 pm |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8109
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Changing the oil (C1) as frequently as you are you could use (C3) as a cheaper option, C3 is recommended in the handbook if C1 is not available, although I consider my previous suggestion of doing every third trip in low ratio a better solution, 30mph can easily be obtained in low ratio. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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| 12th Sep 2023 6:51 am |
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NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
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Breg90 wrote:Interestingly I am looking at bypass oil filtration at work for compressors and gas turbines. The 3 micron nominal and 1 micron ultimate filtration and water removal makes me think that the filter element is the same cellulose element that the various vendors are trying to punt at me commercially.
Some thoughts:
1/. Water removal - irrelevant, unless you sink your car.
2/. You might find that you start to strip the oil additives out of the oil at 1 micron. Advise I have been given is to change 20% of the oil every so long. Not got to the bottom of this yet.
3/. What flow rate will this take - you are robbing some of the oil that would have gone to the bearings. I'd want to see an electric oil pump drawing separately from the sump and returning to the sump so that the oil system is not interfered with.
Wondering what the root cause of the soot issue you have is. Is it poor filtration? Or is is the duty cycle of the engine, i.e. frequent short journeys so engine does not warm up and DPF does not regen properly? If so not sure the filter will solve this. I'd want be more inclined to look at a remote operated block heater (the FBH) so that the engine is warm and not cold starting - gives reduced fuel dilution of oil and reduced cylinder bore wear & go for a 45 min run once a month to make sure it gets hot and regens the DPF.
Thanks for this commentary. Here is what I know:
Millers Oils (who supply my C1 oil and also do my oil analysis) tell me that additives are all sub 1 micron so will not be effected by the filter.
Water contamination is possible via a failing oil cooler.
The filter diverts <5% of oil flow from the system but the filter also increases available volume by 20% (ish).
Finally, the car gets two 125 mile drives at 50mph plus per week on the journey to and from Inverness to collect and return guests. The DPF gets regular opportunities for regens. The car also rarely has a cold start - I religiously use the FBH to preheat each day (when the weather is cool enough to operate) and once the engine is warm, it’s doesn’t cool down all day as one journey is made directly after the other. I appreciate I am using my car in a highly abnormal manner compared to most, hence the regular oil changes and oil analysis.
Finally, some comments of my own and I don’t want to be disrespectful of anyone on the forum with my next comment/ observation so please just take it as I intend. As far as I can tell ( and I have asked several times), I believe I am the only member of the forum that sends every batch of oil away for oil analysis after every change. Doing this makes me aware of what condition the oil is in whereas those who don’t undertake regular analysis are unaware of what is happening inside their own engines (and who therefore are in blissful ignorance of what they can’t see). I have a strong suspicion that many D3 and D4 diesel engines are running with high levels of soot.
Last edited by NC500 on 12th Sep 2023 7:56 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 12th Sep 2023 7:38 am |
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Maddpuk
Member Since: 25 Aug 2023
Location: Barnard Castle
Posts: 29
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@NC500. Alas, I’ve not managed to get around the route once yet, but one day. For fuel, do you use regular diesel or always Premium? 2014 Discovery 4 HSE
2013 Insignia Sports Tourer BiTurbo 4x4 SRi
2004 S2000
Honda FourTrax TRX300
- Paul
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| 12th Sep 2023 7:55 am |
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NC500
Member Since: 18 Sep 2017
Location: On the NC500
Posts: 497
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We don’t have premium diesel in the north Highlands!!! 😂
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| 12th Sep 2023 7:57 am |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 767
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Must admit never bothered to have the disco 3 oil analysed, but at work we have all the euro5 and 6 diesels checked every other oil change. The euro 6's generally have higher soot levels, those that flag up as an issue normally have blocked EGR valves and and/or underlying exhaust issues, blocked or partially blocked DPF / SCR from either overfilled oil, turbo passing oil or repeated regen time outs.
This filter sounds like a decent solution, would be interested in the results if / when fitted 
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| 12th Sep 2023 12:42 pm |
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