Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15269
RRSTDV8 wrote:
I think the reality is that there isn't a Defender replacement. The vehicle called "Defender" is really the Disco replacement. The Defender is as it was has been killed off in all but name.
Agree with that, but then the Defender (like the D5) still lacks in similar areas where the Disco3/4 excels....... always on the road less travelled 🚧
< ‘tis but a mere scratch …….. it’ll polish out.
2nd Dec 2022 10:23 am
Moleshome
Member Since: 15 Oct 2020
Location: Wokingham
Posts: 412
How long until they introduce a Defender Sport?
2nd Dec 2022 12:05 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
There was once a plan for a smaller version of the Defemder. Not heard anything about that for ages now, but that I’ve been looking.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
2nd Dec 2022 1:34 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
Re: D5/6-Who is the target market?
Russell wrote:
LT wrote:
With both the new Defender and FFRR having the option of 7 seats, what is the target market for the Discovery now?
If you want a split tailgate (of sorts), which would exclude the Defender and want 7 seats, but specifically don’t want FFRR (image and cost?) then that’s it. Seems quite a niche market for a specific model. Especially as pricing for all three models overlapping.
Hardly seems worth developing a new/facelift D6!
Do not think there will be a D6, if you talk to many LR dealers and people higher up in LR they all seem to think there will not be a Discovery replacement
Good point, which sort of answers my original question.
Although at one stage JLR definitely had plans for an extensive Defender, Discover & Range Rover family of models. Which is a nice idea. But in reality the overlap of models would I suspect be too great.
Which leads us my back to my original question.
One fact to consider is that the DS is JLR’s biggest selling model, at least I believe that’s a fact. Not checked it for a while.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
2nd Dec 2022 1:41 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13604
The DS could be massaged in to the Range Rover line up between the Evoque and the Velar. It could even just become an Evoque XL - "the Evoque for the young family".
In effect it would be going back to the earlier line up but in reverse. Used to be lots of varieties of Series Land Rovers and the Range Rover. Now it could be lots of varieties of Range Rover and the Defender.
Stranger things have happened, and it would kind of mirror what the Germans do - they have lines of very similar but slightly larger cars and then a few "specialist" off shoots - BMW's Series runs from 1 to 7 and then they have some dedicated EVs. LR could have the RR range and then some dedicated (tough) cars in the Defender.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
2nd Dec 2022 2:26 pm
ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15269
Had this in my PC files from way back April 2018, but high chance the publication was way before that.
Click image to enlarge
...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
< ‘tis but a mere scratch …….. it’ll polish out.
2nd Dec 2022 2:34 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
I am seeing a lot of "new" Defenders on the roads, but very few new D5's.
I realise that's not an accurate guide to sales, but I bet the figures support what I see.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
6th Feb 2023 3:42 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10360
I agree, but feel that the new defender is more like a fashion statement buy, a bit like the new mini was, and new beetle when it came out. In a couple of years there could be quite a few cheapish defenders about once the novelty has worn off.
AlVolvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
6th Feb 2023 4:03 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
I am sure there's a strong appeal to an "SUV" that looks as if it's capable of crossing the harshest of terrains.
Which was also the case for the D3/4 and its Tonka Toy styling. Although LR tamed that down a bit for the D4 to compete with the more "urban" SUV's.
It's similar to the appeal of having a divers watch, when in reality few if any would even wear one in the shower, let alone at 200m below the surface.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
6th Feb 2023 4:10 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
Pretty dire across the board tbh...though new model FFRR & RRS would have held back sales of the old prior to launch.
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
Thanks DG.
Sort of tallies with what I see on the roads/motorways.
I see more new FFRR’s than D5’s.
I was a bit surprised by the Evoque sales figures though.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
6th Feb 2023 8:40 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50979
ytd Dec 22 ..Defender sold more than the entire Jag range ..Considering they used to sell max 25k Defenders pa I think you could call it a success 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
6th Feb 2023 8:52 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
The “new” 90 is a rarer sight, but it seems like 110’s are every where and have been for the last 6 months or more.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
6th Feb 2023 9:13 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14478
My Defender is good, but its not worth its money and I miss the tailgate and practicality of the Discovery 3/4.
I'm now thinking, and I can't believe I'm saying this, of chopping it in for D5
I only got it because I went to buy a 2016 D4 and thought it 'old' and felt the Defender was the closest in driving style to the D3/4, which I believe it is.
However, having owned it 3 months I really hate the side opening door and small boot and aperture.
LR really messed up taking the D5 away from its market. Yes, many D3/4 owners have moved to the Defender but its just not as practical and too much money for what it is.D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
6th Feb 2023 11:22 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13604
LT wrote:
I am sure there's a strong appeal to an "SUV" that looks as if it's capable of crossing the harshest of terrains.
Which was also the case for the D3/4 and its Tonka Toy styling. Although LR tamed that down a bit for the D4 to compete with the more "urban" SUV's.
It's similar to the appeal of having a divers watch, when in reality few if any would even wear one in the shower, let alone at 200m below the surface.
Could be that the D5 isn't selling because there are now a number of 7 seater SUVs on the market and, well, it's a big blob of a car these days.
The Defender is different because, as you say, it looks like a "proper" LR.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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..Considering they used to sell max 25k Defenders pa I think you could call it a success 
