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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14478
  
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Ok, people bitch and moan, but give a qualified answer to why all that he has said is wrong?
Counter with knowledge and experience not moans. Lay your alternative arguments out.  D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner 
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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 5th Feb 2023 10:09 pm |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20853
 
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Not just this video in particular, but they say 5w30 is the wrong oil to use
JLR give some pretty specific oil requirements
Ford use the same engine in many other countries, with exactly the same specifications
They say 5w40 is the correct oil, despite both Ford and JLR requiring use of 5w30 My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 5th Feb 2023 10:24 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13604
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Moo wrote:Ok, people bitch and moan, but give a qualified answer to why all that he has said is wrong?
Counter with knowledge and experience not moans. Lay your alternative arguments out.
I give more credence to the likes of D_M here.
The "the manufacturer is wrong, I'm right" argument is like the two stroke oil thing. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 5th Feb 2023 10:30 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14478
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Ok, but why for the same engine do different manufacturers give a different oil specification and why for different countries does LR specify different oil.
As good as DM is, and other than LR says 5W30, why is Christian wrong on what he said about oil pressure, bearing journals and oil pumps etc.?
If there is no counter argument with evidence or experience, then it's just an opinion that LR is right. Sadly in my industry, when manufactures aren't right, people die or are injured and the evidence usually comes from the end user or a post market study, despite the manufacturer's best efforts through a highly regulated validated safety and efficacy process to incredibly rigorous standards.Things aren't perfect and you learn, change and adapt.
So I don't buy it that what LR says is therefore always right. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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| 5th Feb 2023 10:52 pm |
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jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
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I agree with some of what he says in the video.
However the caparison between on old 6 cylinder Toyota and the tdv6 is completely useless.
That whole 5 main, 7 main, 3 main journal argument is also a waste of time, the actual journal diameter on one crank is larger than the other and therefore has a larger surface area, that would have been a better comparison......measure the main journal surface area on various V6 engine's. Rather than simply measuring a main journals width on a v6, and somehow trying to compare that to an inline
straight 6 engine. From reading various threads on the whole crankshaft snapping thing, my own opinion is the crankshaft would have benefitted from a decent (larger) journal radius. It is basically not there on what i have seen of the tdv6 crank.
On Toyota being bullet proof.....well just google D4D engine's,.... all manufacturers have lemons.
As for the "Monday morning" crankshaft......well maybe, but i very much doubt it. These days cranks are mass produced, cast and hardened in massive batches, even the grinding, balancing and polishing is all done by fully automated machines. A hungover footie fan can still press a button on a machine that dose all the work for him.
His argument about 2 big ends being feed by one main journal oil gallery being a problem... is also probably wrong.....i would expect the oil gallery within the crankshaft to all be connected, and if not.... certainly there would be different diameters oil feeds to compensate for the larger demand.
What did i agree with again ? Oh yeah the oil.
While 5w30 oil is great if you live where it is -20 outside i doubt we will ever need to worry about that in the UK. I have used 5w40 oil in mine for about a 3rd of its 170k mile life. Why? Because my old girl has crappy injectors and I'm pretty sure that my oil is being diluted by unburnt fuel, more so than if it had great injectors. She is also well run in now and all the moving parts have seen a load of action already. So i switched to the 5w40 oil a few years ago.
That "clatter" heard on initial start up is shortened by a few seconds and i change it every year or 5k miles....whichever come first. Will that actually mean my engine will last longer than others....who knows.... that's just what i am doing with mine.
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| 6th Feb 2023 1:36 am |
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tanters
Member Since: 24 Oct 2007
Location: Oireland
Posts: 4287
 
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5W Dumbass ….. gets me every time 
Lots of the very technical jargon goes over my head but I like their videos as they’re still working on the D3 and there isn’t much content out there keeping that car on the road. Well, that dude in Perth, Oz, had engine rebuild, which was excellent, but even he ran out of content.
To put a video out consistently on a Sunday like Vera & Christian do is impressive. So much of their maintenance involves using their own workshop, specialist knowledge and tools, so it’s even beyond most of us to replicate what they do. There’s a strong entertainment vibe going on! I’m cool with that.
By their own admission they don’t always have work to do on the car so that’s why we get talkie ones from time to time. If they just asked, I would drop my car over to them in a heartbeat ….. 12 months content right there A happy childhood ... is the worst possible preparation for life.
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| 6th Feb 2023 9:11 am |
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disco chris
Member Since: 25 Apr 2022
Location: London
Posts: 292
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I was under the impression that the same engine as used in various Citroens and Peugeots as well as Jaguars had several different available oil recommendations, including 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-40, etc? Even in climates similar to the UK. So that's not to say I think 5W-30 is incorrect or less good by any means - I have been using 5W-30 to JLR spec in the entire 242k miles we've done in our D3 - but I am willing to entertain the idea that there are other grades of oil that can be used successfully in the D3 variant of the 2.7 TDV6. Or is this not possible for some reason?
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| 6th Feb 2023 9:57 am |
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qcnr
Member Since: 23 Nov 2017
Location: Norway
Posts: 117
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It's entertainment and take it that way, but Christian does tend to back up his 'opinions' with researched facts, ref oil. As he pointed out in the video even LR and other manufacturers that use this engine,
specify 5W40 oil.
5W dumbass 
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| 6th Feb 2023 9:58 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
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In Australia (much warmer than most of Europe), Ford specify 5W-30 for the fitted 2.7 TDV6 in the Territory SUV and in this vehicle the engine rarely fails. In fact the Territory is the go to vehicle to pick up a replacement engine for a dead 2.7 LR engine.
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| 6th Feb 2023 10:24 am |
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Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
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disco chris wrote:I am willing to entertain the idea that there are other grades of oil that can be used successfully in the D3 variant of the 2.7 TDV6. Or is this not possible for some reason?
I suspect that you did not read everything above 
But, “everything” is possible…. You can believe any social-media “ specialist” you like/want instead of well known specialists with longer track record (and more importantly the mechanics who have their business at risk when they are making uncovered claims) Just don’t blame JLR if is goes wrong… (not on birthday party’s, not here or elsewere) maybe the you tube owners will give you the needed warranty and cover for damage if their advice was wrong after al (ohw no! They do not need to do that, because they have a disclaimer! It was “just” entertainment!  ) Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc. 
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| 6th Feb 2023 11:22 am |
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disco chris
Member Since: 25 Apr 2022
Location: London
Posts: 292
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Yes, I did read everything above. But still the precise counter arguments are not clear to me. Like I said, I currently use JLR spec 5W-30 oil for my high mileage D3 and always have, which surely indicates that I am happy to follow LR specifications for the vehicle in this country. I'm not asking any garage or mechanic to put 5W-40 grade oil into my engine, nor would I expect them to provide cover on their work in case of failure if I did. I am also not asking for a warranty / damage cover from some Youtubers... So I am not 'believing any social media specialists' I am just asking a question which doesn't seem to have been answered? Unless the answer is just 'LR don't specify anything other than 5W-30 for the UK market D3s so therefore it's the best thing for your engine'.
I hope I didn't offend you with my question - like I said I use the official spec oil in my D3, so am not by any means saying well known specialists are wrong here - but I am genuinely interested in the discussion and hearing points of view that might shed more light on why Christian and Vera may be incorrect.
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| 6th Feb 2023 11:48 am |
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HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: North Essex
Posts: 704
 
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With so many manufacturers using the same basic engine it is difficult to find out where the recommendation actually comes from. There are various ways testing can accelerate in use experience but trying to replicate 200k miles of real world use is not going to be easy. Do all installations have an oil cooler and is it oil/water or oil/air, an oil cooler will almost certainly increase the volume of oil in circulation anyway.
The anecdotal experience along with the variations in manufacturer recommendations would indicate that it isn't going to make a huge difference within limits especially when over 100k of use. The temporary fix for low oil pressure was a heavier oil and that was years ago when almost everything had good old 20/50 from the get go. When I looked under mine before I bought it there was little indication it had even been down a dirt track let alone off-roading but it had been used for towing but pulling what? A little trailer to the dump is a bit different from a horse box or even a caravan around the country. All that has an influence, I am sure they did tow but I don't recollect a picture of a G4 pulling a trailer across a desert. A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an is still an EV. Strictly speaking its SWMBO.
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| 6th Feb 2023 12:39 pm |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20853
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I am genuinely interested what research they (Christian + Vera) have done to decide that 5W40 is better than 5W30 (or even the 15W40 the manual also says can be used)
Given the million of £££'s of spending JLR/PSA have done, on top of the thousands upon thousands of miles of testing, 1 man on the interweb has an opinion, and spouts it as fact  My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 6th Feb 2023 12:41 pm |
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HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: North Essex
Posts: 704
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You can (and he has) give all sorts of engineering reasons why one spec should be better than another but ultimately if the testing platform consists of one vehicle that is not an adequate statistical test. A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an is still an EV. Strictly speaking its SWMBO.
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| 6th Feb 2023 3:09 pm |
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tanters
Member Since: 24 Oct 2007
Location: Oireland
Posts: 4287
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Disco_Mikey wrote:I am genuinely interested what research they (Christian + Vera) have done to decide that 5W40 is better than 5W30 (or even the 15W40 the manual also says can be used)
Given the million of £££'s of spending JLR/PSA have done, on top of the thousands upon thousands of miles of testing, 1 man on the interweb has an opinion, and spouts it as fact
It’s safe to say, when it comes to the two of them, ‘there’s a video for that!’
They did a full video on it a good while back A happy childhood ... is the worst possible preparation for life.
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| 6th Feb 2023 8:22 pm |
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