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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
  
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Would leaving the battery off for a few minutes (or hours) clear them out, or are these 'hard' faults that must be cleared by IDS/T4? Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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 14th Jul 2009 12:58 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
  
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It would be better to have it done via IDS or other service computer software but in an emergency you can remove the battery terminals (once the park brake light is out) and touch the +V and -V leads together for ten seconds. It will also wipe the transmission memory and trip computer info I think.
If there is another issue wiping the fault codes will make it difficult for the dealer to diagnose where the problem is, so if you get them cleared get them to download a file of the codes first. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2009 1:10 pm |
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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
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Just for clarity, let me know if I am correct: I shut the vehicle off, and apply the park brake. I then do nothing for the period of time it takes for the red park brake light to extinguish. Once this light is out, I remove both battery cables and touch the ends of them together for ten seconds. This should clear any suspension faults. Correct?
Thanks much, this will be helpful. Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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| 14th Jul 2009 1:18 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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I think it clears the faults but as I pointed out, it clears other things also.
Worked for me but others say a minute:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19547.html
You could try the five keys method first:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic30193.html “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2009 1:50 pm |
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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
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Perfect, thanks. I will try the battery method on my lunch break today, and hope no more faults recur. However, I can vouch that when I used to get the HDC fault message, the system still worked perfectly. (this from reading other linked posts) Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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| 14th Jul 2009 1:58 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
  
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Nice one Troverman, 
It's great to see someone having a go,  and of course all the better to see them succeed. 8)
Those pictures would sure be a help and might inspire many others if you can get them up.
For everyones benefit however, I would at the very least loudly re iterate Wiggs advice on the risks and timing employed when manually forcing the pump to run.
In fact i am sorry to say that i personally would advise against it at all.
Yes i know we make diagnostic equipment and all, and perhaps some might think that means i have alternate reasoning / motive, however, i would hope most would realize by now that i am just not like that.
So please don't flame me, in all conscience, I just don't want to see anyone doing any damage for the want of me freely sharing my input, knowledge and understanding.
As many of you know we have worked on the EAS systems diagnostic capabilities extensively, and although i would nort profess to know it all, i do know a few things about the system and how it works, and i think if i simply tell you what i do know, you will see and understand my reasoning for yourself.
Obviously the EAS system can accept a diagnostic command to tell it to run the pump. We put this command in our own equipment / software but we quickly discovered that it only ever works under certain conditions.
This threw us for the simple reason that we have never before encountered any ECU which does not unconditionally obey a diagnostic output over ride command before. For example i can happily turn on a door lock solenoid, and if i leave it on long enough, the motor will burn out. So in such circumstances we build in our own safe guards, however even in diagnostic command mode the EAS system still protects the compressor in 4 ways.
Firstly, the EAS ECU will not start the compressor against any pre load, it will measure the pressure of the gallery and unless it is at 1 atmosphere the ECU just will not run the compressor. In normal operation this means that the system vents the gallery (shared common pipework) to exhaust before starting the compressor.
Secondly the EAS ECU will not run the EAS ECU for more than 4 or 5 seconds if no other valves are open and hence the pressure has no where to go such as the reservoir, exhaust or an Air Bag.
Thirdly the run time of the compressor is always limited by the ECU to no more than 30 seconds if the first two criteria are met.
Fourthly
The EAS system still monitors and obeys the, not one but two temperature sensors, if the pump is too hot the system will not run it.
For these reasons, when running the pump with our system, we always pre vent the gallery, open the reservoir valve and then time limit the run.
In addition my observations are that these pumps get hot real quick and therefore seem to have a really low duty cycle. It may also be that they do not like being ran while not in its normal fitted orientation.
A mate of mine recently knacked one off a Sport while bench testing it and trying to gauge it's flow rate by feeling the flow at the output with his hand. He says he did not run it for very long. If only he had asked me first. 
I am fairly sure that when by passing the EAS control relay, normally controlled by the EAS ECU, that all of the EAS ECU's protection capability is also circumvented.
so as i said, i can but relay my own knowledge and understanding for what its worth, and apologize for being the devils advocate damp quid on this aspect.
Interestingly on P38's which suffer with compressor problems due to wear of the piston seal, manufacturers of replacement seals eventually emerged and there is now a choice of differing materials.
One can only hope that one day we have the same sort of fixes for these D3 compressors.
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| 14th Jul 2009 7:41 pm |
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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
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Interesting bit on the D3 compressor, BBS, and good information.
I can assure you our LR3 under normal computer control seemingly always runs the compressor for more than 30 seconds. Yesterday when I hooked everything up and there was no (or very little) air in the system (car lowered, air tank pressure released, gallery pressure released) the car turned on the compressor and probably ran it for 2 minutes. I'm not kidding, and there was no fault message.
Here is a question: Does the compressor necessarily need to run each time the LR3 is restarted? It seems like it almost always runs every restart. Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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| 14th Jul 2009 9:01 pm |
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stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
 
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There's a good chance that like many components in the D3, it's being tested at each start-up. Maybe it runs for 30 seconds and monitors the pressure increase to ensure it's working within spec? Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
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| 14th Jul 2009 9:31 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
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I have not noticed my own running on start up, have to keep my ear out for that one Perhaps it takes the start up as a cue to check the pressure and re charge the tank if it finds its below a certain pressure.
But i have also noticed the pump run for what seems to be greater than 30 secs in normal mode. I guess when the EAS ECU is measuring the pressure and temps it makes up different rules.
As i said, i don't profess to know it all and my main area of concentration is how the system behaves diagnostically.
I would have loved to have done some more extensive testing to find the limits, but given i only have the one compressor i thought it best not to 
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| 14th Jul 2009 10:19 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
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Oh BTW
i do have some positive contribution / good news. 
It is my understanding that with enough non fault present drive cycles the system will sort of archive the fault and the system will become fully operational with no lamps lit etc.
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| 14th Jul 2009 10:22 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Colin
Have you noticed any difference between the pre MY 07 and post MY07 in terms of how the software behaves? The CNBUS and some of the loom were changed to stop cascade faults. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2009 11:49 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
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Hiya CaverD3
Not noticed any change, but then we make equipment that simply reads the faults that each system chooses to store for whatever reason it deems fit. We don't really get into the logic that a system employs in deciding what and when to store any codes. Although we do see the cascade effect more so between ECU's.
Interestingly, quite recently when working on my own car, i note that ECU's with known cause faults also seem to get upset by their faulted status and skip a few transmissions on the CAN BUS, this causes other ECU's to register faults of missed messages from the respective ECU. For example the Ipack reports missing messages from the PDC because the PDC is missing its sensors. With a faulted EAS it seems most everything gets upset, in particular the TR.
This is of course the sort of behavior that is fixable in software, be it the faulted ECU being made to behave properly on the BUS during any crisis, for the sake of the children, sorry i mean other ECU's or the ECU's that register a fault just because another one had a bit of a crisis.
I have to say i do sympathize with the software developers, Different companies develop each ECU to written interactive standards, they get precious little time to check interactivity and almost non of that focuses on fault simulation, as their directive is usually just to get it all working together, and usually against near ridiculous deadlines.
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| 15th Jul 2009 7:53 am |
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troverman
Member Since: 09 Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 51
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Here is the latest: All day yesterday there was at least an amber fault, and various fault messages on the MC. The compressor did not run ever, although the car stayed at normal height. I assumed my epoxy-weld had broken, causing the con rod to slip off the bearing again. I took the compressor apart enough to see and in fact it had not broken! I could freely move the compressor up and down. Putting it back together and restarting the car, the compressor turned on for the first time, but the height indicator next to the TR knob showed both the normal and off-road heights lit. Pressing the button in either direction caused the amber fault to come on. After a second restart, I did not touch the height button but let it stay showing both heights lit simultaneously. The compressor must have run for 2 minutes, then shut off, no faults, but both heights still lit. I then clicked the height button up to off-road height; the suspension went right up and no faults. I drove it about 500 feet, parked it in my drive, and hit the height button to lower it down to normal. Well the front went down but the back stayed up! Then the screen said "extended" mode, clear obstacles and reset. The pump came on, and the back went up really high, while the front stayed at normal height. I let it cool down, tried restarting a few times, could not get the back to come down. Finally I removed the pipe from the reservoir valve block to the rear valve block, nothing happened. Leaving it off, I started the car and hit the lower button. Instantly the back came down pretty quick. I re-hooked up the pipe and had more suspension faults. Finally, I went somewhere later and the screen abruptly said 'normal ride height selected' (even though I never touched the height switch) and the pump came on and the car was level. It has had no faults in three subsequent trips. However, the screen is saying 'normal ride height selected' seemingly every time the car starts now, without touching the button. Why? [/list] Current Rovers:
2005 LR3 V8 SE
1992 Range Rover County
1997 Range Rover 4.0SE
Previous Rovers:
2000 Discovery II SD
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE
1992 Range Rover County
Also Current:
2012 Volkswagen GTI 2.0 TSI
1995 Mercedes-Benz E320
1999 Audi A8 4.2 quattro
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| 15th Jul 2009 1:44 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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FIIK 
Have you done the cold boot yet?
System is confused, try making sure the contacts to the compressor are tight (maybe clean with isoprphic alcohol)
Otherwise it may be a different issue and nothing to do with the compressor. Trip to the stealer? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 16th Jul 2009 1:15 am |
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