mirror88
Member Since: 19 Jun 2010
Location: Leeds
Posts: 139
  
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Re it being the intercoler pipe, im not mechanically minded whatsoever but this split on mine acouple of weeks ago and I think fro what you are saying above its not the intercooler pipe. Id agree with paulp as when mine went there was loss of power throughout the range of gears and black smoke when putting your foot down. (I drove 800 miles from France like this and i had to be really light on the peddle.) New hose solved the problem. I then replaced the EGR valves last week and forgot to refit the intercooler pipe again (  ) then had exactly same problem hence if its is split you wouldnt have power kicking in as you say it does... Hope this helps 2011 Discovery 4 HSE
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 19th Aug 2010 6:03 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
  
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maltesenick wrote:While I was composing previous post CaverD3 slipped in with stuck vanes on the turbo. Any other signs or symptoms for identifying that?
Yep - the symptoms are a severe and sudden emptying of your bank balance. 
It could be a turbo problem, but these are usually (although I understand not always) accompanied by the engine MIL coming on and fault messages in the dashboard.
EGR failure on EURO III (i.e. pre- MY07 engines) do not give any visible warning lamps or messages which is one of the reasons I thought it would be that.
Being a 56 plate means that it was built in mid-late 2006 (like mine), so could either be a MY06 or MY07, but I'm putting my money (or rather yours) on it being a MY06 with faulty EGRs....  2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 19th Aug 2010 6:59 am |
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Baben
Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Kyalami
Posts: 2059
 
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PaulP - I think we are talking about different things - when the intercooler pipe splits it probably does what you say. I have never experienced this, only the delamination of the pipe internally, which results in the sypmtoms I described
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| 19th Aug 2010 7:53 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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Good point
Cheers,
Paul 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 19th Aug 2010 7:59 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Your symptoms sound like it's the EGRS stuck open.
For £5 from Coachman or a heavy duty set from Bell Auto Services and I'm pretty sure you'll have it back on song. Lucky its an 06 model as you can't do it withoiut warning lights appearing on 07 onwards.
Split intercooler pipe would normally give you very noticeable smoke.
For the price, EGR blanking has to be the first port of call. you can do it yourself if you have a small set of sockets/Torx bits. Don't forget to order new bolts which are aboiut 50p each (yoiu'll need 4 new ones) only that they're generally too corroded to be worth putting back in. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 19th Aug 2010 8:39 am |
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Matthewnoble
Member Since: 22 Sep 2009
Location: Cordes sur Ciel
Posts: 31
 
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Just rung my normal garage who said it would definitely be the EGR valves, as they are meant to communicate with the turbo and so it does not know when to kick in until a certain point in power, thus a woosh.
He said it is very unwise to blank the EGR as it knacks up the turbo in due course which is then very expensive.
His price for changing both, and all the gubbins is £684.38p inc of vat. One day I'll get there!
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| 19th Aug 2010 8:58 am |
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Matthew,
Completely untrue!
The EGR valves when blanked off, STOP the dirty Exhaust gases getting back into the air intake, so the Turbo ONLY gets clean air and fuel to deal with.
If you've ever taken off or seen the state of the EGR valves & how much crud is contained on them, then you would see what is actually having to be dealt with by the Turbo.
The ONLY reason for EGR valves are to re-cycle the unburnt fuel in the exhaust gasses to make it hit EuroIII/IV emmissions standards.
Although when blanked off, it actually reduces the normal emmissions as measured by VOSA.
£60 for a set of blanks from BAS and an hour or so later, you'll be back to normal power.
EGR valves for 06 is aboiut £125 a side, so his price for both is probably not too far off if yoiu really want to do it..... Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:08 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Oh, the EGR valve doesn't communicate with the turbo, the turbo is a mechanical item, the EGR electronically controlled, no comms between them directly..... Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:10 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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Bodsy wrote:
The EGR valves when blanked off, STOP the dirty Exhaust gases getting back into the air intake, so the Turbo ONLY gets clean air and fuel to deal with.
If you've ever taken off or seen the state of the EGR valves & how much crud is contained on them, then you would see what is actually having to be dealt with by the Turbo.
Speaking of completely untrue 
The turbo never gets air (or dirty gases for that matter) and fuel in the inlet side......the fresh air and exhaust gases are mixed at a point just before they enter the throttle body.
The turbo only ever breathes fresh air from the air filter before compressing it and sending it through the intercooler to the throttle body.
So whilst your mechanic is not correct on this point, neither is Bodsy
(Also, it's not technically even a throttle body as the butterfly is not used to control air/fuel mixture as in the old days, but rather to mix clean/EGR air before it goes into the cylinders)
By blanking the output of the EGR valves and jamming open (or removing) the butterfly, you are effectively making it use ONLY clean air at all times.
And whilst there is no direct communication (in the mechanical sense) between the turbos and EGRs, both are run by a closed-loop system by the EMS ECU (i.e. data communication) which is why, on MY07 engines at least, it will throw a wobbler if the EGRs fail. This could cause limp-home mode with IIRC will limit boost. 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:22 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Never said there weren't electronic monitoring between the two, just that the turbo is not controlled in any way by the EGR. The ECU will limit the power if it thinks the turbo will explode so you're right in that respect  
But anyway, he has an 06, so the measurements are not errored in the same way  Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:37 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Anyway, the point is, he's mechanic is talking oiut of his orifice more than we are Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:37 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:39 am |
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maltesenick
Member Since: 25 Jul 2008
Location: Tullibody - where the F's that??
Posts: 148
 
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Re Caver d3 comment about software patch - would it be worth asking my local LR dealership who dealt with car during warranty period to check whether the patch was ever applied to my engine or has that particular ship sailed? I'm not actually sure if this knowledge would assist anyway.
If it was the turbo vanes sticking would use of Redex etc at this stage help in any way?
Also, does either the egr failure, the intercooler pipe delaminating or indeed the possibility of the turbo vanes sticking show up on any of the diagnostic systems in use by dealership or independents?
I appreciate blanking the egr's off is the cheaper , presumably quicker and therefore more sensible option ( between egr's and turbo ) to head for first but it would be good to have it confirmed and save potentially wasted time and effort.
Just out of curiosity, once blanked off, do the egr valves then just carry on operating and achieving nothing in the future regardless of the fact they have had a vasectomy - so to speak?
And having seen the previous three posts I don't want you guys falling out and coming to blows!
Last edited by maltesenick on 19th Aug 2010 9:44 am. Edited 2 times in total
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:41 am |
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discoBizz
Member Since: 20 Sep 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1416
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Been reading this thread with interest as I think there's a similar problem developing in my MY08... (or the turbo lag is worsening  )
Couple of questions:
-I read the EGR blanking is not recommended or even suggested on MY08 engines (Euro IV?) - Is the solution to replace the EGR valves under warranty then (which expires in 10 days!!!)
-If there were an EGR fault, would it show up on the dashboard or the dealer's IDS?
-Could similar symptoms (very slow to take off up to around 2k revs) be caused by a dirty intercooler (from wadding in mud for example?)
-I have never managed more than 400miles to the tank since I got the car two years ago - should I be concerned or is this normal given urban driving accounts for about 90% of it?
TIA, Biz ==> Guide - Inexpensive AV Modification
==> Guide - Extend the multimedia of your Discovery III (September 2011, v1.2 uploaded)
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:42 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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Biz,
- yes (i.e don't bother blanking them on EU IV engines)
- yes (and get it booked in quickly!)
- yes (in both cases)
- yes (sounds about right to me)
Paul 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 19th Aug 2010 9:57 am |
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