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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
  
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| Fixed? : FBH - requiring extra air to start |
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My FBH starts using the timer - almost every time...
However, it's pretty inconsistent if it's starting automatically (ie D3 sending it the signal). The way to resolve it is to gently blow down the air intake pipe as it's starting, otherwise it will sound like a kettle and blow out with a big cloud of smoke.
The air intake pipe is clear (I removed and checked).
Do they have a filter somewhere that can be changed? But that would cause a consistent problem. 
My other thought is that starting from the timer causes a pump/fan to run for about 30-60 seconds before the heater fires up, whereas with the car sending the signal, it fires sooner...
I'm clearing the faults on mistarts - so it's not locking out....
Any thoughts please? 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
Last edited by John C on 7th Dec 2010 9:15 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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 22nd Nov 2010 9:08 am |
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Trackman
Member Since: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 430
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Have you checked the exhaust is not blocked and the CAN bus wires into the FBH are ok?
But do not understand why it starts off the timer. Once its told to start the firing sequence is the same - does point to the start signal from the car
Ian.
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| 22nd Nov 2010 11:22 pm |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Thanks for the reply. After a bit more playing, both timer and autostart are intermittent... Mmmm...
If I gently blow down the air intake, it will always fire, but sometimes, will just 'blow out' on attempting to fire... Air intake and exhast are both clear. Wondering if there's some air filter in the unit, or the silencer has broken down inside?
I've been reading this (I realise it's a different model, but the working principles are the same).
http://www.techwebasto.com/heater_main/tec...63378A.pdf
Has anyone taken the FBB apart? 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 23rd Nov 2010 8:40 pm |
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blue meanie
D3 Decade
Member Since: 04 Aug 2005
Location: Newbury
Posts: 6861
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firstly let me state I'm no expert in this stuff! but it sounds like it's fuel related in some way to me? ie when running off the timer there is no active fuel pressure as it just works off the small reservoir, whereas when the engine is running there is fuel pressure there,so could it be a jetting issue? also the 1533 when active sends a constant keep alive signal to the FBH, does the D3 do the same when controlling it? and theeeeennn......???
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| 23rd Nov 2010 9:36 pm |
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Trackman
Member Since: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 430
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If it starts with you blowing into the air intake, I read this as you are supplying more air (oxygen) to enable combustion to start.
I would guess that the glow plug is gummed up or the combustion chamber. Now how to fix this is another question. Normally I would just take it to bits but that would mean draining the engine cooling system and I believe it is not easy to refill.
If someone knows how to take the thing apart without letting water go everywhere - speak up 
Another note, I have seen comments of adding Redex or equivalant to the diesel to clean the FBH but don't know if that works.
Ian.
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| 23rd Nov 2010 10:01 pm |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Thanks chaps - that's useful. 
It's had about 4hrs of burns with redex going through it - so think that's done all it can.
This morning, the timer fired it up, ran for 30mins, I sat feeling smug whilst watching it out of the window whilst troughing my Weetabix, then came out a minute or so after it had finished... started the car, tried to start, and failed with a puff of smoke... Grrrr (Battery fine too).
Agree about being uneasy about taking it apart, most of the instructions seem to start with removing the pump - and therefore, causing a load more work (as you mentioned above).
Might try taking the silence off and putting a pipe straight through just as a test to see if that's causing any breathing issues... Should wake the village first thing!
John 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 24th Nov 2010 8:24 am |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Faultmate Colin
I'm getting B129 -this is the same fault I'm getting constantly.
B1D2993
No flame detected, even after restart attempt
Check the fuel supply, Check the pump and circuits. Refer to the electrical guides.
Good call BM.
Still none the wiser as to how to fix it, but at least it narrows it down.
Any thoughts anyone please? 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 24th Nov 2010 1:06 pm |
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Trackman
Member Since: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 430
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The fuel pump for the FBH is near the diesel fuel filter for the engine under the car (drivers seat). The power feed for it comes from the FBH and is on the same connector as the CAN bus - pin 5 from the circuit diagram I have and ground is the chassis.
If you are not getting fuel to it why does it start if you blow into the air intake 
Other notes, the 1533 timer sends a data burst to start the FBH and a data burst to stop, there is no "keep alive" data signal. Well not on mine which I got this year  The FBH pump takes fuel from a small reservoir in the main tank which is filled by the engine fuel pump. As long as the car is being used this should be full, this also explains why it is stated not to run the FBH for more than 30mins is case you empty this reservoir.
Ian.
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| 24th Nov 2010 4:59 pm |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Thanks TM - that's dead helpful. Going to remove the silencer tonight just in case that's at fault somewhere....
I can hear the tick-tick-tick-tick of the solenoid pump even when it doesn't start - so guess that's at least getting a signal...
Thanks again,
John 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 24th Nov 2010 5:02 pm |
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blue meanie
D3 Decade
Member Since: 04 Aug 2005
Location: Newbury
Posts: 6861
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Trackman wrote:
If you are not getting fuel to it why does it start if you blow into the air intake
Ian.
no you misunderstand, what I meant was it sounds as if it is getting too much fuel for the fuel/air mixture when the vehicle is running, that is why it runs when more air is pushed down into the inlet Is there an idler/starting air valve or breather or similar that might be blocked with mud or gunk or something? and theeeeennn......???
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| 25th Nov 2010 9:27 am |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Thanks for the clarification - that's helpful! 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 25th Nov 2010 11:17 am |
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Trackman
Member Since: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 430
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See what you mean now BM.
No, there is no valve other than the controls inside the FBH. The FBH controls the pump.
Suspect the gunk is in the combustion chamber but how you fix this without taking it apart is the question.
I suppose if you have a local Webasto dealer they would give you the answer - don't bother going to landrover.
Try here http://angebote.webasto.de/Public/LtRFPsNew.aspx
Ian.
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| 25th Nov 2010 10:05 pm |
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Divlar
Member Since: 10 Sep 2008
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 221
 
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John C, you seem to be having exactly the same problems as me with same fault codes. I tried as you suggested, blowing air down the intake and hey presto it worked. I've done this a couple of times now and let it run however I still get problems when it has to fire on its own.
Fired up three times in succession now (best ever) whilst driving but when it tries to fire up when the car is idling back to usual - boiling kettle then out it goes.
So due to the increasing success rate having never worked in the past I think it may well be just gunked up.
You might think the extra electrical power being fired around when driving might be giving that extra bit of power to glow plug or something but if I rev the car in neutral when it fires up - no joy? I couldn't say the air intake would be improved by driving since its nicely tucked away from any real forced air?
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| 26th Nov 2010 9:11 am |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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Sorry (but good!) to hear you have the same problem. I'm persisting with it for the next week or so to see if somehow the gunk will clear with lots of use - but I'm not holding out much hope...
Thanks for the link above to the service centre - the nearest one's Leeds which is a fair hike. Wish I could get my hands on some sort of manual because if I could open it all up without having to disconnect water/fuel lines, I might be able to clean it.
Worked fine this morning, and fired up a couple of times when in traffic. Probably won't work when I go home...
I think they key to it is getting it to run a few times throughout the year. As I understand it, it's a top spec device from a very good company, so is meant to be reliable. I think the environment it's put in doesn't help, but I'm hoping once I can clear the gunk, it will then work and I can do routine preventative running in the summer now that I have the timer.
John 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 26th Nov 2010 12:36 pm |
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ritz
Member Since: 28 Nov 2010
Location: ireland
Posts: 2
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What is FBH and its function ? and should it run after engine has been switched of ,
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| 28th Nov 2010 6:40 pm |
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