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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
  
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BN,
Your a clever chap I must say so ! Thanks.
Could you post the 1st lesson again... can't find the  ing thing anywhere !
Cheers and thanks for these... they're cool and really demo some great DISCO3 stuff... and why we bought manual Land Rovers !
-s
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 29th Jun 2005 3:27 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Simon, lesson 1 was a sample, just do the same facing uphill thats all. The D3 is really quite awesome when you get down to what it can do. I can complete the SAS course at Eastnor with a D3 on road tyres  . It gives the car a bit of a beating underneath and a few scratches down the sides, but nothing too serious. That is without a snorkel as well. What you must remember that most people who go off roading do it for fun and adventure and learn by their mistakes. The add ons are a lot of the time for show, unless you get into extreme off roading.
Ironically, some of the hardest surface to drive on is grass and sand, not mud and rocks. You can get stuck in both these materials on a flat and level surface.
Most of my vehicles in the field are not modified, other than survival equipment.
My backup vehicle for my business is a Tatra 6x6 18 tonner fully laden, try stopping that little number  .
I am quite happy to arrange course, but maybe we can speak about that at Billing.
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| 29th Jun 2005 3:39 pm |
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Nickhearne
Member Since: 28 May 2005
Location: Ibstone Bucks
Posts: 1000
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That sounds great, but who is going to change gear for me & pump the clutch when I 'm driving around this quiet corner of England ?
Nick (lazy  ) Hearne D5 HSE Waitona Grey 2015
Range Rover Sport Estate 2.0 P400e Hse Dynamic Black
D4 HSE Santorini Black
Almond Arabica hide & Walnut trim Now sold
Discovery 3 TDV6 SE
Zambezi Silver Ebony leather Now sold
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| 29th Jun 2005 3:43 pm |
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Nickhearne
Member Since: 28 May 2005
Location: Ibstone Bucks
Posts: 1000
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BN wrote:
I am quite happy to arrange course, but maybe we can speak about that at Billing.
Don't forget some of have to work on Saturdays, so will not be there!
Well may be not work but be at work  D5 HSE Waitona Grey 2015
Range Rover Sport Estate 2.0 P400e Hse Dynamic Black
D4 HSE Santorini Black
Almond Arabica hide & Walnut trim Now sold
Discovery 3 TDV6 SE
Zambezi Silver Ebony leather Now sold
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| 29th Jun 2005 3:50 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Good point. If any of the lads can get there on Sunday, it would be possible to meet then if enough turn up.
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| 29th Jun 2005 3:55 pm |
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jzk
Member Since: 15 Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 99
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"jzk, sorry I really must disagree whole heartidly there. because the D3 (LR3) has a fantastic system, that when off roading the clutch is the last thing you touch once rolling."
If you can drive a manual up wipeout hill in Moab, UT, then you are way a better driver than I am.
Here we are going up the aforesaid hill, which by the way is rated as one of the hardest Moab trails by Charles Wells:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/43755209
To do this, one foot is on the brake, and the other on the gas. The brake is gently lifted at the same time the gas is gently applied. Now, on a regular ascent with a clutch, no problem. Just do it as you say. But on this hill, spotting is critical, and there are about 30 times where you transition from stopped to barely moving - as "barely moving" as barely moving gets. In order to do this with a clutch your driving skill would have to increase by a factor of 20.
If it were possible, how can it be said that manual would be better for it?
Now, when driving a two wheel drive car like a Porsche 911 on the track, one must double clutch to keep the engine from braking the two drive wheels too severly. This can't be done in automatic. And, manual gives much better feel on the track, and slightly better acceleration. But this is not necessary for the LR3. LR3 HSE
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/lr3
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| 29th Jun 2005 3:56 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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jzk, two points here and neither are whether anyone is a better driver or not. I for one do not class myself as a better driver than anyone else, even though I drive around 140,000 UK miles per year, hopefully a safe one though.
The RRS in the picture is quite capable of ascending the hill in your picture with road tyres as you can see. If it can do that on road tyres, it can certainly ascend with a manual. Indeed LR are just about to release a DVD on level 1 driving (very basic) which I have mentioned on the forum and a D3 is climbing over a rock from sand on road tyres. A very difficult manoeuvre even if it is not a steep slope, the sand makes it interesting. The LR 110 has been doing it for years all over the world. Skill factor maybe a help and in my case it is my job and not just for fun, so maybe I am excluded.
Second item is the Porsche and double declutching, This is carried out for a few reasons, the main one is to ease the gears for non syncro boxes and also as you say. However, to change gear in a manual, you do not need to use the clutch if the revs are correct. This is where double declutching comes into its own. This can also be done on a manual dual speed 40 tonne truck fully laden, by the way.
A couple things an auto has over a manual gearbox is that the brakes are used more so people following see the brake lights more often and keep back. It also allows the driver to be much more observant as the work load is a lot less. More versatile no. Fords theory is that an auto box should reduce crashes by 20%, what they forgot was the loose nut behind the steering wheel, called the driver..
To continue, heat up the tranny in your hydraulic auto and you’re at a dead stop. In a manual you can smell the clutch before it goes, gives you time to take action, especially in a working environment. Fors and against in both areas, depending on whether your life depends on it or not 
You cannot bump start an auto when the battery is dead in Siberia 
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| 29th Jun 2005 5:11 pm |
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ducati
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 180
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I, too, prefer automatics offroad. I used to drive manual tranny Jeep Wranglers offroad and only had a manual because the 3-speed auto was pathetic. Our Freelander was my first offroad experience with a slushbox, and I was sold from day one. It really is better for control. Not better for fun, but better for control.
Truth be told, I'd probably buy a manual tranny TDV6 if given the choice--better economy and I like shifting for myself on the road.... But the V8 slushbox combo is excellent offroad, save the soft spot just off idle. '05 LR3 HSE
Departed: '62 Series IIA, '02 Freelander, '03 Disco
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| 29th Jun 2005 5:12 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Nothing wrong with either it is what your needs are in the end. Mine are for survival in a working environment and for manual there is no substitue for me. Years ago, I had CJ4's with auto and apart from the horrendous rust problem and 8mpg, they were quite good. They all had Quadratrac, but when the hydraulic clutch gave in the car was dead. The flexible sprung steel chassis on the CJ was very good for climbing however.
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| 29th Jun 2005 5:18 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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jzk,
I just want to say that those RRS pictures are bloody amazing ! This ought to confirm to any doubters that LR builds some amazing vehicles and I would never have believed anything could climb those rock s like that thing did.
Well done !!
Do you have this climb on video ? A QuickTime file we can download ?
Again... amazing !
Thanks.
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| 29th Jun 2005 5:36 pm |
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jzk
Member Since: 15 Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 99
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This is what I have learned about the LR3s offroad ability based on my beginner/intermediate skill level.
We have trouble on trails requiring significant clearance. I went off roading with some jeeps and a lifted Disco 2 last weekend, and we were doing these boulder fields, and I was having trouble with clearance. However, our undersides are very well protected. If someone made some real rock sliders, that would be a nice addition. To be honest, driving over a bunch of boulders on flat ground is my least favorite off road terrain. I like nice climbs, descents, a little mud, and changing scenery.
Some of the vehicles in our group were those monster types like these:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/45432044
and even lifted jeeps like these:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/45432105
I just can’t compete with that kind of clearance.
However, I did notice one thing. Many of those monster lifted vehicles had no lockers! What I take for granted in raw crawling ability causes them to spin their front and rear wheels! Like this disco, for example:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/45432090
He had the clearance and driving skill, but still must crawl over this kind of terrain, with momentum! It made me cringe a couple of times the way he backed up to take “running starts through the rocks.â€
Same with this Jeep:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/45432103
The LR3 and RRS, however, provided they can clear the obstacles, can walk over the terrain with ease and grace. That is why novices could drive the RRS up Wipeout Hill. The RRS barely had the needed clearance, and then the variable locking differential and transfer case came into their own. The climb up the hill was done ever so slowly with finesse, not just slamming it up the rocks.
And, I am not knocking those types of vehicles, as they sure did go places that I would never be able to.
The other thing is that our tires really do suck in the mud. Our tires are like tying one hand behind the LR3s back. Since trying these:
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/image/43367053
I haven’t had any issues in the mud. I can now walk nice and slowly through rather than running through sliding all over the place.
Just my humble opinion. LR3 HSE
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/lr3
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| 29th Jun 2005 6:03 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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You seem to have some serious fun over there !!
And loads of great images !
-s
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| 29th Jun 2005 6:16 pm |
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jzk
Member Since: 15 Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 99
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OH, and I do not have video of the RRS, just the pics I took. Someone does though, as they were shooting video the whole time. LR3 HSE
http://www.pbase.com/jzk/lr3
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| 29th Jun 2005 6:18 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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Shame... do you know any of the guys taking video ? I see in some of the images that they were using some serious cameras and taking some great under car shots.
-s
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| 29th Jun 2005 6:32 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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The great thing about America, is that they have a lot of land and variety. We in the UK have nothing. If we do find it, the travellers (itinerants) have parked up.
I used to do a lot of work for Academy Sports and Outdoors in Katy, Texas, and Davis Electronics up in Manchester NH, which gave me the opportunity to do a lot, include rent a Harley and do Route 66.
My Tatra in the icon to the left.
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| 29th Jun 2005 6:35 pm |
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