Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
Character in trouble yet again !!!!
Ok, problems over the past 48 hours.
Prolonged starting up ie key engaged from position 2 to 3 and sounds like a new engine on turnover that has not been had the parameters set then fires up as normal a few revolutions later. ticks over fine once fired up and revs/drives fine.
Last 24 hours has seen the fuel use increased considerably so when on the search with me torch to see if I can see anything and then found this when lying down by the side of the D3 looking into the OSF wheel arch so looking towards the rear of the engine!!!
Should be sais that he had a new high pressure pump around 5 weeks ago and from an initial chat to the AA man at the services (whilst both enjoying a cup of coffee on our mutal breaks) he immediately suggested that the ignition symptoms lead him to believe that there was air in the line and the pump was purging the system of air prior to kicking in.
Any help in identifying the issue would be very very helpful so as to pre-order what parts might be needed!!!
Will have limited time to play on the site this weekend but please put yer thoughts ere or call me 07740 473349 (i'll delete the number after I'm back on Monday so as to keep the mods happy).
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Last edited by character on 8th Sep 2011 9:37 pm. Edited 1 time in total
2nd Sep 2011 11:32 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hard to tell but it does look a little like the RHS exhaust manifold around the area where the crossover pipe routes the exhaust gases to the turbocharger on the other side of the engine. Something not quite right about the shape though (well in my mental model of this bit of the engine) but if it was a leak in this area it would explain your symptoms and the black gunk.
Thoughts anyone?Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 11 Mar 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 3551
This is a pic of the area i think it is
Click image to enlarge
Bit of a long shot,is your EGR link pipe split and are your EGRs blanked.Wanted D4s non runners pm for competitive price.
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3rd Sep 2011 9:05 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20841
Exhaust crossover pipe split?
Would be a lack of power due to loosing pressure before the turbo, which would also explain the black soot on the heatproof sleeve My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
UPDATE AS OF SAT MORNING:
Ok, took him into Westover, Salisbury, my thoughts overnight might be a leaking fuel filter that was causing the issue of air in the fuel system which in turn was why we were loosing mpg and struggling a wee bit on start up as the system was being purged of air on start up.
Sure enough, minor leak from what was a 2 week old filter which was replaced and then the system was blead to pull thru the air - yep all good, engine started in the traditional D3 way and yep fuel consumption was back to normal for the trip from the dealers to the first pick up of the day, total distance of 55 miles.
Loaded the trailer and approx 30 mins later set off.............. ignition went back to the struggle type approach that had been prevelant over the previous 48 hours BUT the fuel consumption was as per normal and had been for the next 250 miles or so.
So it would appear to be some kind of fuel supply issue or air in the system. The high pressure pump (in the fuel tank) was replaced 4/5 weeks ago so is there any other pumps we should be changing that might have been on the way out since then but has now failed completely in the past 48 hours. I think someone mentioned a "slave" pump or a "low pressure" pump, if so where can these be located as its back in on Tuesday to investigate and I want to pre-empt by getting the parts ordered up (they can be sent back if needs be).
BTW, will get em to check the cross over pipe and the egr link pipe (we had a new box in Feb and the previous stealer had not re-connected the exhaust manifold to the turbo) but the residue seems to be diesel from the leaking fuel filter we assume.
Hope to get back on ere sunday night to give an update on performance during the day
Character, Low pressure pump is in the tank, high pressure pump is the one at the back of the engine.
If the HP pump fails completely, the engine just won't start - partial failure (due to the vanes wearing ISTR) will still allow the engine to run most of the time with no issues - but any sort of load could cause Engine System Faults - as you put a fair bit of load on yours when towing, that seems unlikely TBH.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
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4th Sep 2011 8:32 am
character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
well now back after 1500 odd miles in the past few days, update for yer:
seems to go as per normal but still this annoying turning over on start-up. He's into dealer AM tomorrow, not looked to see whether the previous photo has got worse, too bleedin wet the past 24 hours
5th Sep 2011 7:18 pm
wvlenthe
Member Since: 07 Jan 2009
Location: Arnhem
Posts: 1967
Had this symptom on a different kind of car, engine, well actually the whole thing was different except the symptoms. Turned out a knackered LP pump causing the fuel to drop back into the fuel tank (so lines empty). Engine needed a couple of revs before the pumps had the fuel back to the normal required level, then the engine would start and run normal.
Maybe it is of some help, good luck diagnosing.
Regards,
WiljoD3 V8 HSE Auto in Zermatt silver - driveway version gone but not forgotten, only the living room cupboard version remains
5th Sep 2011 7:32 pm
character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
well in the dealers as we speak, they recon its the starter motor so new one being fitted even though its was replaced last May.
Have found an intercooler hose split, so being done first thing when parts arrive and I also insisted that they replaced the cross over hoses L/H & R/H from egr to exhaust.
Going to speak to LR Customer care int morning, not happy that the starter motor lasted only 15 months when the previous one lasted nearly 5 years
Also speaking to them regards the HP pump which I replaced 3 weeks ago and I notice there's a recall on MY07/08 and mines MY06
6th Sep 2011 7:47 pm
Q86ARR
Member Since: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Jersey
Posts: 379
06MY have different HP pumps to 07MY\08MY
And also LR parts have a life of there own. I changed a turbo on a FFRR the other day that I has replaced 3 weeks (1800miles) previous!
6th Sep 2011 7:57 pm
character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
Q86ARR wrote:
06MY have different HP pumps to 07MY\08MY
And also LR parts have a life of there own. I changed a turbo on a FFRR the other day that I has replaced 3 weeks (1800miles) previous!
Mine does fall into the recall period 01/09/06 but not the VIN number range for some reason and with the same symtoms having been reported to the dealer both prior to and subsequent to the new fuel pump being fitted on 28/06.
As for the starter motor needing replacing, going to pay the surcharge to keep my current 15 month old one as I'm not convinced it actually needs replacing and if the new one goes pete tong, then I'm having me money back please
6th Sep 2011 9:53 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20841
Q86ARR wrote:
And also LR parts have a life of there own. I changed a turbo on a FFRR the other day that I has replaced 3 weeks (1800miles) previous!
Had a customer in today, had his brand new Defender for 1100 miles, and dropped a cam follower My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
well back on the road as of this afternoon, new starter motor, cross over pipes from L/H & R/H egr to exhaust (as a precaution), new lower turbo hose (as advised by dealer)......... pick up is great even with the trailer on but MPG is still at least 3mpg off what it was - going to see what happens on a motorway run but tonight on a 26 mile distance from point A-B (from Burford to Long Marston) was getting 21.3mpg with Audi A4 estate on the back and 23.4mpg with just the trailer (960kg) from B-A.
Question regards the starter motor......OEM LR recon unit fitted 93k miles ago (may 2010), surely it should last alot longer - anyone else had one of these OEM LR recon units go since fitting and if so how many miles?
7th Sep 2011 10:13 pm
character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
latest update regards the starter motor:
"To clarify what we discussed earlier, claims outside the warranty period are considered on a case by case basis following certain criteria and implemented through the franchised network. Please note that any goodwill offered is down to the discretion of the manufacturer and is not an automatic right. This assurance programme is controlled by set guidelines to ensure consistency in the decision making process. At present we will not look to contribute towards any repair costs on this vehicle.
Kindest Regards,
David Lillico
Land Rover Customer relations
Senior Executive "
the fight continues... will be sending it off to be confirmed its knackered before going back them, good news regards the leak.... we now know what it is..... its a brake exhauster gasket leaking or at worst the brake exhauster itself.... have a complete unit on order for next week to be fitted
8th Sep 2011 9:33 pm
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