mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2521
 
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colleague of mine got into the same jam as this after wiping out his audi at a jucnction
fortunately the insurance settled 50 50 so dick turpin exchange got paid off.
he also had no idea that what he thought was a hire agreement was a "your up for any liabilty " credit agreement and turns out they wanted to charge £250 per day for the replacement hire car ended up £10,000 !!!!
after i queried with him why they were so keen to keep him in the nice replacement vehicle we read the small print and reality dawned. Big bust up with AE who then offered him an insurance for £10 that protected him from any liability but unlimately that wasnt put to the test .
my angle with the solicitor would be that your risk was not clearly explained to you ( a bit like endowment misselling ) Once AE realise your going to contest this and its not easy money to pick up they will proboably accept a offer for quick settlement if theres no way out for you.
These cases are just bundled up and put in the hands of third parties to collect what they can so they will go for easy money . Sorry i cant be more positive but this was and proboably still is a scam and its outrageous that people like AE can get away with it . All the best but kick up a big fuss it costs them to persue you so make yourself as expensive a target as possible  MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
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 24th Nov 2011 8:41 am |
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ZacSmith
Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Dover
Posts: 709
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I have just finished a long and painful relationship with Accident Exchange ("AX") after SWMBO was involved in a no fault accident in our Jag. She took it into Lookers Park Royal who referred her to AX. Before I let her sign the agreement, I got absolutely categoric assurances that I wouldn't have to pay a penny unless:
1. SWMBO had lied and it was actually her fault
2. We failed to cooperate in helping them get their cash back by providing witness statements, going to court etc.
In fact SWMBO then totalled the AX courtesy Mercedes. The fault driver's insurers objected to paying AX's £1300 excess on that, but not the original damage. She then ended up in court going into the question of whether she would have hired a car with a £1300 excess if someone else hadn't been picking up the bill. Since she had to ask the judge what an excess was, I don't know whether her evidence helped much!
If you signed the same agreement as I did, I suspect that they may have been trying to contact you and are now suing you because you "didn't help them recover their costs".
As an aside, I found AX to be exceptionally helpful, reasonable and understanding throughout the long and tortuous process. VIN: A175A328***
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| 24th Nov 2011 8:56 am |
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SpiderBaby
D3 Decade
Member Since: 21 Sep 2007
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1411
  
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When I was hit from behind last winter, the other party's insurer admitted liability immediately and offered a like for like vehicle at no cost but it had to be provided and sourced by them - I got an RRS although I didn't care what I got.
In big bold terms it was made very clear that if I went and did my own thing they would refuse to pay any unreasonable (i.e. inflated) costs and contest it in court.
I declined to use my insurer's repair company and told the accident management company that hassled me to pi55 off.
My local Indie had my D3 back in a couple of days, the RRS cost me nothing and the excess was picked up by the other party's insurer when I collected my car.
I seem to remember that insurer's get paid a percentage for referrals to these accident management companies (as do the referring garages) and it is in their interest to keep your own car off the road for as long as possible.
It is in part down to these vultures that insurance premiums are so high and too many people unfortunately get suckered in. I see no ships........
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| 24th Nov 2011 9:27 am |
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mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2521
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you were astute enough to realise there was a risk and understood what it was which is absolutely correct was it made obvious or did you have to dig to get to that info ?
The problem here is and with my stated case that isnt the way these deals have been put across and the cost of the replacement hire costs can be extreme.
If your wife had to go to court to help them claim there money ! that sureley smacks of someone trying to get more than is fair and reasonable by AX otherwise there claim would have been settled without the need for court but sometimes i guess thats just the way these companys operate
but at least you give the other side of the coin for AX customer service so a good post as it gives the argument balance MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
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| 24th Nov 2011 9:38 am |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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We must not forget that these "Credit Hire" Companies were set up because there was a need and market for them. Going back in time even if there was no dispute that the other driver was at fault, their Insurer didn't want to have any thing to do with you and you had to "submit" your claim to them for consideration and payment when they got around to it.
Things have changed now and if the Third Party is at fault, the chances are that you will now get a call from the Third Party Insurance Company asking if you would like a car to be delivered, yours picked up and you will pay noithing. Some insurers will also try and settle injury claims direct with the third party to avoid solicitors fees.
If the Insurance Companies had got there act together sooner (years ago) then we wouldn't be seeing these problems today.
However, it doesn't help when Insurance Companies are now also selling on the non fault claims to "Credit Hire" firms and receive a fee for the referral. Double standards again with Insurance Companies - Insurers saying we won't pay your hire car bill as its too high because you used a "Credit Hire" firm but on the other hand passing claims to these firms to obtain a fee.
The sad part is that whichever Insurer picks up the bill, we all end up paying it in our premiums which over the past year seem to have risen more than any other time.
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| 24th Nov 2011 9:45 am |
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mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2521
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The sad part is that whichever Insurer picks up the bill, we all end up paying it in our premiums which over the past year seem to have risen more than any other time.[/quote]
spot on torching your capri for the insurance payout to buy some new wheels just didnt work out well as a long term plan  MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
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| 24th Nov 2011 10:14 am |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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Just a thought, from my days allied to the FS industry, given that this is a "Credit Agreement" and that AX have to be regulated by the FSA, surely then any "Third Party Business" would also have to regulated under what is called a "Introducers Licence" afilliated to the main licence holder (and also able to be seen to be recorded against the main licence holder), in which case this all seems to smack of financial miss-selling and therefore likely to be procecuted by the FSA as STRICT guidelines are enforced for "introducers" in what they HAVE TO EXPLAIN IN BOTH VERBALLY/WRITTEN along with any third party member of staff having to be able to demonstrate that AX have provided/continue to provide training in the selling of their products/services ie attandance to regular training seminars etc.
To those of you who or are in the throws, might be worthwhile checking/seeking formal confirmation from FSA to see whether the "introducer/garage/bodyshop" are licenced introducers of AX or need to be in order to sell AX, coz if not then its up to AX themselves to deal with internally and the FSA to take further action against them along with the garage/bodyshop being immediately banned from selling any further products/services of AX
Who knows, this bit of info might help to sway a magistrate in your favour as alot of these threads talk about what was said OR NOT SAID when AX products were sold to you at the dealership/bodyshop.
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| 24th Nov 2011 10:58 am |
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ZacSmith
Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Dover
Posts: 709
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Quote:you were astute enough to realise there was a risk and understood what it was which is absolutely correct was it made obvious or did you have to dig to get to that info ?
The problem here is and with my stated case that isnt the way these deals have been put across and the cost of the replacement hire costs can be extreme.
If your wife had to go to court to help them claim there money ! that sureley smacks of someone trying to get more than is fair and reasonable by AX otherwise there claim would have been settled without the need for court but sometimes i guess thats just the way these companys operate
but at least you give the other side of the coin for AX customer service so a good post as it gives the argument balance
Mark
TBH I just couldn't understand why someone I had never met was happy to give me a new Merc so wanted to see what the catch was.
The excess of £1300 is pretty unreasonable and daily hire rate is steep as well, but that's how they make their money and pay the referral fees. It's not out of line with the excess you pay to Avis on holiday if you don't take the CDW insurance. it's a bit rich for insurance companies to refer clients to management companies, take the fee and then complain the costs are too high.
You are quite right though. It took them a month to write my jag off, during which time I racked up £5k of car hire costs and wrote off a new Merc and then whichever car insurance company lost will have to pay two sets of solicitors, barristers and court fees. Compare it to when SWMBO reversed into a 911 that was insured by the same insurance company as we use. Claim processed and repair done in under a week. VIN: A175A328***
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| 24th Nov 2011 11:07 am |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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Without delving too far in to this, the garage will probably say they are not giving advice but have a leaflet stand on the counter. However, the probability is that they will be FSA registered in connection with the financial services they offer in respect of vehicle loans, warranty, etc.
In the accident which Chalky has described, some one did not do sufficient checks prior to the hire bearing in mind it seems the Third Party was driving a foreign licenced vehilce.
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| 24th Nov 2011 11:11 am |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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agree, the garage might have their own licence but would need to be on the licence of AX in order to sell in any shape or form AX's products whether that is a leaflet or a business card 
Not always likely that a bodyshop would be registered under FSA due to the huge cost of being and maintaining a licence - hence a cheaper way of earning money on the back of "introduction" fees from someone who is 
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| 24th Nov 2011 11:29 am |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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Character - Agreed but as most of the Credit Hire will be from referrals they will probably have that covered. It also depends on exactly "who" at the bodyshop is receiving the referral fee !
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| 24th Nov 2011 11:33 am |
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chalky
Member Since: 21 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145
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OK, Jsut to update, i have just had a lengthy conversation with my solicitor: She has said that i must sign nothing, the guy who knocked on my door gave me 24 hours to think about this ! She says that he cannot do this i cant remember the term she used ?
I have been advised that i should go to court, stand there and if it all looks decidedly dodgy and that i am going to get the credit figure to settle then change your plea at the last minute stating that a man who knocked on your door at half past seven at knight looked like one of the scams that you are warned about stating "Have you ever seen daytime TV ? its full of this stuff regarding scams"
NOT SURE THATS GOOD ADVICE
the other option which sounded a bit more by the book was as mentioned above
Option 1: by not signing you are not assisting them in their recovery of costs so you as in me am liable to pay the outstanding, by not adhering to the small print.
Option @: by not giving a true or honest account of what has happened i.e. fraud then again i am liable for any outstanding.
Its being looked into BUT what i cant understand is this !
Why they would look to me for payment as i was the one who was T Boned by an artic on a roundabout !
The third party wandered off back to Poland never to be seen again !
I know the Insurance company were paid out by the MIB as they told me this morning ! why cant these con men go get their costs back from the same people or excercise their own insurance against any such loss.
Again as said above !
If this ever happens again i will settle for the Fiat PANDA ! or better still walk Only dead fish go with the Flow !
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| 24th Nov 2011 2:32 pm |
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SpiderBaby
D3 Decade
Member Since: 21 Sep 2007
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1411
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I'm no expert (just of a suspicious mind) but I think these accident management companies are separate from the insurer per se - but they are in bed with them.
I believe the onus is on all parties in the accident (even the blame free victim) to 'mitigate their losses' - basically keep expense to a minimum.
So, just because you have a HSE D3 doesn't mean you are automatically entitled to one as a 'courtesy' vehicle while yours is being repaired unless you can prove you really, really, really need one - because of your job perhaps (and not just because you're the boss and can't be seen in a Kia......).
I've had two occasions in the last 8 or 9 years when my car has been damaged by a third party - on both occasions I was hounded by these vultures but on reading the small print told them to go away.....
I left the provision of a replacement vehicle to the third party insurer and made no stipulation other than to explain I do high motorway mileage (at that time) and would like a Sat Nav if possible. I also made it plain I would only want it on days when I had to go somewhere that couldn't be easily reached by public transport without causing me major disruption - I saw no point in them paying for a vehicle left on my driveway.
I tried to play fair by them and I felt they played fair by me. To my mind that is the only way to do it or these vultures will just keep stinging unsuspecting people. I see no ships........
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| 24th Nov 2011 2:50 pm |
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ZacSmith
Member Since: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Dover
Posts: 709
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Chalky
Have you tried ringing accident exchange? You can't be expected to decide on a course of action resulting from a five minute conversation on your doorstep. What's their beef? Have they put it in writing? Why have they not ensured that you got a copy of their letters? Could they please do so and let's see if we can resolve this amicably. VIN: A175A328***
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| 24th Nov 2011 4:18 pm |
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mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2521
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im feeling your pain chalky but unfortunately the hire cost of the replacement vehicle is a totally seperate issue legally. Its just scandelous that the risk its not made clear. spider babys point is valid re minimising cost but if you think your at no risk then its easy to forget the bill.
Take zacsmiths advice and ring them if its come to them spending money on a personell collection they must feel your ignoring them so you need to front this out now.
as i said in my earlier post i feel you may well be stuffed legally and need to thrash out the best deal with them they are not going to go away this is how they make ther money. MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
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| 28th Nov 2011 10:38 am |
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