Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi Landylad and do you have a standard type digital multi meter?
Need to measure the voltage at the battery terminals to see how accurate you cigarette voltage monitor is.
And I wouldn’t get rid of your battery charger or battery just yet.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
30th Nov 2012 3:00 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
Has anyone used the CTEK charger with CIGLEAD ? ( http://www.ctekchargers.co.uk/ctek-ciglead.php )
I would be interested to know if it works on a D4 and if it does is would it be as good as connected directly to battery.
3rd Dec 2012 6:22 pm
wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14372
Waste of time as the ciggy sockets go dead when the car is asleepG4 Gone ...but not forgotten
3rd Dec 2012 6:53 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
so the cigarette lighter socket is not permanent live in a D4 then
Thanks
3rd Dec 2012 7:05 pm
petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
Hello again
can some one tell me how long the cable on CTEK Multi MXS 7.0 /10 is, the one that plugs in to the wall (power) please
5th Dec 2012 4:49 pm
LeighW D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
Hi petersw
petersw wrote:
...can some one tell me how long the cable on CTEK Multi MXS 7.0 /10 is, the one that plugs in to the wall (power)...
The Aussie one (exquisitely hand-crafted in China) is about 1300mm from back of charger to wall plug on my Ctek MXS 10.
HTHLeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
....But anyone upgraded their standard OEM battery for something beefier?....
Answer yes I have some 2 months ago...I fitted a VARTA stop-start Plus cost £150...from a place in Leeds...same unit as fitted to Audi A6.....fitted to this due toa lll the Electrical & Electronic gizmo's
....the difference is the rate of charge they take on board....the intention is that these batteries go onto cars with the stop-start function & ensure that directly after a start (or more) rapidy take on a recharge.......the tests I vae done with a multi meter & a charge tester are quite different from what was there before.
The issue I had was infrequent use of the D3.....maybe at best every week then the driving that was done didnt put back what had been taken out........decrementally this ran the the former battery to a stage that starting was poor & a noon event...SWMBO wasnt impressed
The stop start battery is the same size & similar amp-hour rating......whats different is the way it charges up...look at the Varta website....there is a good explanation of the technology - uses AGM
Everyone on here suggested getting & using a CTEK that in reality masked the problem..I did buy a CTEK to occasionally give my new battery a top up when I get in the proximity to a 13 amp plug without using 500 metres of extension cable.
After 2 months of the same sort of usage I can report the fitting of this seems to have worked....I have also invested in the biggest fattest longest jump leads I could find...just in case.
Keeping the D3 plugged into a wall socket all the time isnt an answer that gives me a solution...it may mask a greater problem that only maifests itself wjhen I am not "plugged in" or able to "plug in"
Time will tell.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Jan 2013 7:11 am
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Re: Batteries - Sucking the life out of mine
BLFarrar wrote:
Everyone on here suggested getting & using a CTEK that in reality masked the problem
Hi BLFarrar and I don’t consider you are “masking the problem†by using a battery charger.
The use of a battery charger is a way of addressing the problem and you may well have found another way to address the problem.
But the prime cause, in most cases, for premature failure of the cranking battery is short distance driving and non used of ANY vehicle.
With high technology dependent vehicles like Land Rovers, power consumption is a major issue and unless people drive sufficiently long enough to not only replace the amount of energy used while starting but also to give the cranking battery a form of maintenance charge ( something a battery charger and/or a solar panel does ) premature failures are going to occur.
This is not a new phenomenon, as it has been happening way before the Discovery 1 was introduced but the problem is becoming more prolific with newer vehicle, again not just with Land Rovers, and vehicle manufacturers are looking at other solutions.
One such solution that has been considered for quite a few years, is to raise the alternator’s operating voltage to as high as 48v.
The use of higher voltages in vehicles is being taken seriously to the point where international automotive wiring standards now require the cessation of the use of the colour ORANGE for 12/24 volt DC automotive circuits, as this colour is now dedicated specifically for automotive high voltage DC circuits.
This will include ORANGE being used in electric hybrid vehicles but we are likely to see “experimental†high voltage alternators before long and it will be interesting to see where this will lead.
Back to the currant battery problems. As above, lead acid batteries, including AGMs, need to not only have the starting energy replaced but they need to have a maintenance charge to keep a battery in good condition and to be able to store energy at or near a given battery’s maximum capacity.
The use of a battery charger and/or solar is one way to do this and the use of high recharge capacity batteries like Optimas is another way, so your Varta may well help, but even high recharge capacity batteries require sufficient driving times, so BLFarrar, it will be interesting to see if your battery replacement solves the problem or just extends the time before the battery fails.
Please keep us informed on how your new battery performs.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
11th Jan 2013 6:07 pm
LeighW D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
Replacement Battery
For future reference to anyone researching battery replacement for D3/4 range I replaced my (dying - 660CCA instead of a more healthy 950CCA) OEM Varta with a Varta G14 (AGM).
I replaced it with an AGM as the local LR dealer informed me that there had been four updates to the part number and now the preferred was an AGM at around $530 please (last one was a Ca/Ca and only $230 supplied and fitted in 2009).
After a bit of research the good people at Battery World Indooroopilly supplied and fitted the Varta G14 for $485 so I was pleased with that.
So far, so good as my vehicle will tend to chew through batteries due to the relatively short daily runs that deny the battery a proper recharge. That's what the CTEK is hooked up overnight approximately once a month.LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
Everyone on here suggested getting & using a CTEK that in reality masked the problem
Hi BLFarrar and I don’t consider you are “masking the problem†by using a battery charger.
Back to the currant battery problems. As above, lead acid batteries, including AGMs, need to not only have the starting energy replaced but they need to have a maintenance charge to keep a battery in good condition and to be able to store energy at or near a given battery’s maximum capacity.
The use of a battery charger and/or solar is one way to do this and the use of high recharge capacity batteries like Optimas is another way, so your Varta may well help, but even high recharge capacity batteries require sufficient driving times, so BLFarrar, it will be interesting to see if your battery replacement solves the problem or just extends the time before the battery fails.
Please keep us informed on how your new battery performs.
I couldnt get an OPTIMA of the right capacity that would fit my D3 - maybe the place I went to having the right stock
48 Volt systems...yes agreed there was work done back in the 90's on 48 volt (I worked for a Joe Lucas company that made rectifier silicon so can confirm this).....it didnt get taken up either by Lucas, Marrelli (Ford owned vehicle electrics or any others I know of.
The point I made & still contend is that CTEKing a battery frequently - masks the issue....OK so if I did plug my D3 in every month / week / day as some seem to do....what happens when you dont or cant plug in say if you are away from base camp ?.....problems with your battery or charging are then very evident as not having CTEK'd the system as per routine - you may not start the D3. Also CTEKing any battery on the mode that is meant to once in while "rejuvinate" boosting to over 15 volts for the last part of the cycle - will affect battery life & performance (read from the CTEK manual as brief as it is).
I wont know if the move I have made in fitting a VARTA Stop-Start plus was or is the answer - & I am only going to CTEK my system say every 4 or 6 months. The readings I have taken so far indicate I have a very healthy system & I dont intend to use my D3 in any other way...(every weekend or so...with many weekdays the D3 being parked up). From what I have read & been told is the VARTA Stop-Start Plus AGM battery I have bought has the ability to take on a charge very very quickly i.e in the first 5 or 10 mins of starting the vehicle - with the standard alternator. Leaving the vehicle for long periods didnt discharge any of the original & previous batteries. The current drain when parked was negligable when the D3 finally went to sleep..I mucked about for weeks proving this to myself & wondering.
What I wasnt going to do was fit the same (LR or LR type battery) & expect something better or different.....& I was getting cheesed off buying the same & have it fail.....not being able to start when I wanted to was a tad inconvenient....not really a problem for me to jump start the D3.......but a for SWMBO....even though I bought her a cracking set of jump leads as a christmas present. BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
14th Jan 2013 7:29 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Which model of Varta Start-Stop Plus did you fit (guessing the G14 850 CCA version)?Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
tonight....I believe in amp hours terms is the same as the original battery
& is exactly the same size lxbxh.
it is a Stop-Start PlusBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
14th Jan 2013 9:11 am
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
Hairy Dan wrote:
Landylad, there have been quite a few people had problems with this and Land Rover know about it, they have a 'fix for it which I think updates the software on the battery monitoring system (BMS) I didn't have the probelm when I had my 2011MY D4 but I did have this saved in a word document
Reference SSM54517
Models New Range Rover
Discovery 4
Range Rover Sport
Title Fuel Fired Burning heater/ Battery Monitoring System 11/12MY
Category Electrical
Last modified 21-Dec-2011 00:00:00
Symptom 205000 Electrical Accessories
Content Issue: A customer may report that the Fuel Fired Burning Heater (FFBH) appears to operate for a shorter than expected cycle time (approximately 5 to 10 minutes) before the FFBH is switched off.
Cause: The concern may be as a result of the Battery Monitoring System (BMS) strategy for battery condition/ load detection.
Action: A new level BMS has recently been introduced at Manufacturing for the following model lines:
Range Rover VIN CA371169 onwards
Range Rover Sport LHD VIN CA731475 onwards
Range Rover Sport RHD VIN CA731269 onwards
Discovery 4/ LR4 LHD VIN CA608658 onwards
Discovery 4/ LR4 RHD VIN CA608504 onwards
Check the operation of the Fuel Fired Burning Heater using Symptom Driven Diagnostics (SDD). If the FFBH appears to be functioning correctly during SDD interrogation, it is likely that the BMS strategy is the cause of the concern and the BMS will require replacement.
If the FFBH does not appear to operate correctly during SDD interrogation, continue with diagnosis of the FFBH as guided by SDD.
Land Rover are currently in the process of obtaining new components for stock at Caterpillar with an anticipated date of arrival of 22nd December 2011.
The new part numbers are:
Range Rover - LR037872
Range Rover Sport/ Discovery 4/ LR4 Left Hand Drive - LR037867
Range Rover Sport/ Discovery 4/ LR4 Right Hand Drive - LR037862
Note: The BMS LIN connection (flylead) should not be disconnected as this will cause a red warning to appear on the Instrument Pack and the system will enter a default charging strategy.
Also if you have a read of THIS POST in particular the posts by Wiggs it explains what the problem is.
There is another post on the subject HERE So I would suggest you get it booked into the dealers
Update on the above (and thanks to HairyDan for pointing this out).
Had the car booked in to LR dealer and they eventually changed the BMS. So we'll see how it pans out. Certainly getting the weather now to ensure I get full use of the remote FBH mode If in doot, flat oot!!
14th Jan 2013 9:40 am
LeighW D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
BTW, Varta has a START-STOP Battery system; not a stop-start - that is reserved for 'car park' traffic flows.
HTHLeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
15th Jan 2013 2:54 am
def90v8
Member Since: 22 Jan 2011
Location: kent
Posts: 55
Hi
Land rover smart charge systems like d 4 even new full fat rr only look at battary condition after 10min of driving then will change charge rate and volts to optimise battary ability to recharge in cold temps a battary is very slow to accept a recharge
Which means that if I are only doing 10 to 30 min drives regularly the battary never gets toped up fully
Agm battery's are now direct replacement part for a flooded battary on some models
They are much better at this kind of usage
U can tell if u have a agm battary it has a big white top label.
Battery's are covered under Lr warranty and previous post are correct they must be charged a min of 12 hrs
Even the new rr 405 now has a duel battary system used in different was depending on what engine u have.
Hope this helps
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