Member Since: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 4401
and I thought loosing £1500 a year in deprecation was bad
20th Jan 2016 1:06 pm
Mogwyth
Member Since: 03 Oct 2014
Location: Pwllheli
Posts: 3976
JackNorris wrote:
The mileage only comes into play if you intend to give the car back and not carry on with another car. You can also look to change at 2 years and i was told the garage would ring and look to swap you to a newer car without you paying in any more money
That normally only happens if they have vehicles to shift, we tried with the wife's motor at two years and it wasn't worth it.
While we are talking about PCP what about if you want to change makes, wife has a Juke at present but is thinking about a Cactus, same dealer showroom is next door.==================================
05 D3 HSE V8 4.4
04 MG TF 135
03 MG TF 115 Cool Blue Edition
02 MG TF 160
00 Hymer B564 Lionheart
1971 Series III 109
20th Jan 2016 1:08 pm
Dusty
Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022
DG wrote:
Pelyma wrote:
At the end of the loan you own the car, nothing more to pay. At the end of a PCP you take out a new one and carry on paying; you are effectively paying to use the car not buying it. I bought a HSE Lux just before Christmas that with the extras should have been about £62K, I put £10K down and pay just over £600 based on 15K miles. I could then pay £699 for the service pack so I don't have any service costs. In the long term it is more expensive than buying a car and hanging onto it, but in the short term it is cheaper as you are only repaying depreciation not the whole purchase price, interest is of course paid on the the whole amount.
This is exactly what I have done for all of my Disco's ....I know I don't "own" it but I don't really care about that. I've effectively had a brand new motor every few years with my equity holding value and rolling forward each time. In terms of what I've paid out you could say in 10 years I've had 4 new discos for the price of 1.25 HSE's at today prices.
Horses for courses
Has there been enough equity to keep the payments the same over those 4 Discos? Or as they become more expensive does that out pace the equity? I guess they can inflate the GFV to keep things pretty steady.
Also what happens now they are stop producing the D4, D5?Discovery 4 HSE
SDV6
2015
20th Jan 2016 4:43 pm
JackNorris
Member Since: 06 Jul 2012
Location: Beds/Bucks Border
Posts: 1879
Im also curious.
Have you ever had to put more money in or are the payments the same?
20th Jan 2016 4:44 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50976
Well in my case there was a lot of luck involved in the timing of exchange which in the event boosted my equity.
When JLR almost went pop in 2008 ...I grew equity in a 2009my HSE from the £6k held over from my 1st D3 ...to £11k at the next trade. This was because they couldn't give new motors away at the time of purchase but when I came to trade the 2nd hand market was very strong so the equity grew substantially. This was then put into a 2013MY which grew a further £1k equity in 2 years giving me £12k for the 2015MY upon which I pay less monthlys on and has more kit.
Don't ask me how it all works and I know it sounds like smoke and mirrors but all I worry the wife worries about is what I pay per month and what I can use to put down for the next. How much will hold into my next motor (which might or might not be a D5) we shall have to see ...but I'm not expecting it to drop off a cliff tbh 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
20th Jan 2016 7:44 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
It didn't drop off a cliff for the D2 or D3 so I don't see why it would for the D4.DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
20th Jan 2016 7:52 pm
scimmiamagia
Member Since: 05 Jan 2016
Location: Surrey
Posts: 130
I am still confused...
20th Jan 2016 8:27 pm
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
About what?DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
20th Jan 2016 8:37 pm
xcentric
Member Since: 01 Apr 2015
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 1081
There are two other points to consider.
Firstly, not all PCP's are the same - their structure is the same, but the GFV and the interest rates may vary, and you'll probably get a better deal from an independent specialist (e.g. Oracle finance (I have no affiliation)) than you might from the dealer - though it depends if they want to shift stock. Also, it's worth negotiating down the price of the vehicle to start with, then asking for a PCP deal on the cheaper price - and then negotiating down the interest rate they offer, too.
Secondly, look at the excess mileage charges - it's often much cheaper to be in a deal at say 6000 miles per annum and pay extra for the other 6k miles per year you do - or could be ruinously expensive, depending on the per mile additional charge. A spreadsheet is a necessary friend.....
Note too that great PCP deals come up now and again with specialist leasing companies, especially if a manufacturer has a lot of stock to get onto the roads (Mercedes are known for this) - for e.g. I currently have a M135i BMW that is ~£300pcm on lease, which was a bargain for a £35k car. But those deals are few and far between, and rarely Discovery's.....
20th Jan 2016 11:47 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23719
Dusty wrote:
Basically 3 choices.
1. Hand the car back and asuming you have stayed within the agreed mileage and have not trashed it, you owe them nothing.
2. If they offer you more than the GFV value use the equity to provide a new deposit for a new car and new agreement. They won't let you drive off in a new one if a deposit is not paid with either the equity (if there is any) or some more cash.
3. Pay the GFV figure and then you own the car outright.
4. Keep the car and finance the final (GFV) payment, either by bank loan or hp etc.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
21st Jan 2016 12:07 am
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
As one LR salesman put it the other day,
"If it depreciates, loan it, if it appreciates, own it."
Quite catchy, but it didn't stop me saying I'd rather own it.
21st Jan 2016 6:52 am
JackNorris
Member Since: 06 Jul 2012
Location: Beds/Bucks Border
Posts: 1879
DG wrote:
Well in my case there was a lot of luck involved in the timing of exchange which in the event boosted my equity.
When JLR almost went pop in 2008 ...I grew equity in a 2009my HSE from the £6k held over from my 1st D3 ...to £11k at the next trade. This was because they couldn't give new motors away at the time of purchase but when I came to trade the 2nd hand market was very strong so the equity grew substantially. This was then put into a 2013MY which grew a further £1k equity in 2 years giving me £12k for the 2015MY upon which I pay less monthlys on and has more kit.
Don't ask me how it all works and I know it sounds like smoke and mirrors but all I worry the wife worries about is what I pay per month and what I can use to put down for the next. How much will hold into my next motor (which might or might not be a D5) we shall have to see ...but I'm not expecting it to drop off a cliff tbh
Thanks for the insight. Very interesting. Would you say, or anyone else say this is the norm or were you lucky. Did you ever see the end of an agreement or always swap early? Have you ever gone over mileage.
Sorry for all the questions. Just getting my head around it
21st Jan 2016 9:27 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26757
I personally have had 2 D3's which were purchased on PCP arrangements. Both of them I kept for the term of the deal (3 yrs) and I paid the GFV amount, and kept the cars for a time afterwards.
1st D3 was an 04 HSE, listed at 42k, I put a 10k deposit down. I can't remember the monthlies, but the GFV (or final payment) was 16k. When the deal ended, this was about correct for the value of the vehicle, so effectively I had used up most of my deposit to pay the interest. Interest rates were higher in 2004 remember.
I then 'owned' that car for a further 2 years, and took it to 130k miles. It was over miles when the original deal ended, but because I paid it off it did not matter. That would have been a significant cost had I wanted to hand it back.
Fast Forward to March 2009, the recession has hit, JLR are dying, and nobody wants to buy a large 4x4. I decided that I needed to change and found a nearly new HSE with 1k on the clock, for £32k. My D3 was traded at 9k as deposit, and the monthlies were very similar, but the GFV was just 8K! Again, I kept the car and paid the GFV, and 'owned' it for 1 year. I then sold it for £14k, so did I get some equity back? I don't know?
My current D4 Lux was bought cash, so I have owned it from day 1. The 14k I got for my D3 went towards it of course. So its now coming up to 3 years old, and its done 57k miles, its probably worth about £32k, so its depreciated about £18k on the cash I had to put in. But I have not had 3 years of monthlies, or any final payment. So I reckon when you add up the cost to own over 3 years, there is not much in it. I chose to buy outright because there was not much I could do with the cash to make any significant interest.
21st Jan 2016 9:49 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50976
JackNorris wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Very interesting. Would you say, or anyone else say this is the norm or were you lucky. Did you ever see the end of an agreement or always swap early? Have you ever gone over mileage.
Sorry for all the questions. Just getting my head around it
I'd say I was lucky with the 2009MY scenario ...the only one I've handed back early was the 2013MY in a "no brainer" exchange for a new 2015MY ...not gone over mileage nor had any penalty applied for superficial damage. I have a very good dealer relationship which of course helps enormously 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
21st Jan 2016 2:22 pm
Bill Wright
Member Since: 03 Nov 2007
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 3254
I've read the above with a great deal of interest. I've never had a car on a loan or lease or whatever name the deals go by. I've always paid the full amount on the day of delivery and taken the hit on the depreciation each time. Preamble over.
Is it possible/feasible to put my vehicle in as the deposit on a PCP plan and have a GFV to pay at the end of three years if the value of the vehicle trade-in is about £36k. What would be the form at the end of three years, assuming I had fulfilled all the terms of the contract (mileage/condition & etc.)? Is there any age restriction on these plans?
Never take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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