- You are currently viewing DISCO4.COM as a guest - Register to take part or Log In
BJ
Member Since: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Daventry
Posts: 5
  
|
| Towing trailers with LED lights |
|
It has become apparent that a there is a significant issue connected with the use of LED lights on trailers towed by Landrover products (Range Rover, Discovery 3 and Range Rover Sport). It is connected to the fact that the ECU appears to be constantly 'searching' for the presence of trailer wiring by pulsing the wiring loom and gauging the feedback in the system. The issue lies with the fact that a normal filament bulb does not 'react' to this by emitting a visible light. An LED lamp on the other hand does. The effect is a strobing from the indicator lights left then right in quick succession. Visible in daylight, dangerous at night and highly likely to be illegal. Landrover are managing the enquiry at a technical level with the usual disdain. 
|
 28th Feb 2007 7:33 pm |
|
|
DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50941
|
Hello BJ and welcome 
Errrr....a few questions for you..... how many people are you aware are affected by this catastrophic oversight  and you seem to be blaming the D3 and LR for the incompatability of a 3rd party product ...do you think thats fair? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Last edited by DG on 28th Feb 2007 7:51 pm. Edited 1 time in total
|
| 28th Feb 2007 7:50 pm |
|
|
90BHP
Member Since: 18 Oct 2006
Location: Half way along the road on the right
Posts: 3706
|
My Audi did this too . . .
Instant cure, buy a normal trailer ? "To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
|
| 28th Feb 2007 8:32 pm |
|
|
BoatMad
Member Since: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 5
|
Thats a bummer, I'm just about to get a waterproof LED set for the boat trailer, removes the need to take off the light board
I'll have to dream up a bit of electronics to smooth out the pulses or something
|
| 28th Feb 2007 10:26 pm |
|
|
Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
|
I guess it just needs something that will use about 5/21w of power so that the system can confirm status.
The pulsing I would imagine is to do with not enough power drian for it to lock on to anything?
I'm sure TFC will be able to provide a flawless and detailed explanation as usual. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
|
| 28th Feb 2007 10:33 pm |
|
|
90BHP
Member Since: 18 Oct 2006
Location: Half way along the road on the right
Posts: 3706
|
Audi had a pulse for two reasons. Brake bulbs blow more than other bulbs because they go cold / hot quickly and for short periods. Audi pulse a signal for such a short period the bulb does not light but is kept - warm. The pulse also senses a bulb failure . . .
Not something land rover seem to have used it for ! "To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
|
| 28th Feb 2007 10:51 pm |
|
|
90BHP
Member Since: 18 Oct 2006
Location: Half way along the road on the right
Posts: 3706
|
Motorbike indicators just have a resistor in the line - easy "To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
|
| 28th Feb 2007 10:52 pm |
|
|
BJ
Member Since: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Daventry
Posts: 5
|
We are aware of this issue due to our connection with trailer manufacturing. We have 2 new Discovery 3's both have the issue. Customers with both Discovery 3's and Range Rover Sport also report issues, naturally blaming the product attached to the LR as the source of the fault is easiest and certainly for LR the most convenient! In essence a trailer is simply going to display in the lights (LED), what it is given, it has no power source in itself and no systems on board to control the power. In-line resistance has been attempted in order to immitate the effect of a filament bulb, however this does nothing other than feedback to the towing vehicle that there is in fact a trailer attached (without the resistor some cars do not recognise that a trailer is attached - Range Rover), it does not stop the vehicle sending further pulses of electricy and the LED lights from flashing (albeit very briefly) as a result. This is not a situation that is likely to go away - LED lights are really beginning to take a hold in the industry for all of the right reasons. I suspect it may require some form of electronic smoother unit. Any ideas gratefully received.
|
| 1st Mar 2007 12:37 am |
|
|
christyler
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1168
|
BJ wrote:Any ideas gratefully received.
Can i get some more information. Correct me if i am wrong. When using LED trailer lights
1 the car thinks there is no trailer lights attached, this is solved by a resistor across the indicator LED's-- ok
2 the car emits pulses on the brake light circuit, this i supposed to keep the filiment in the bulb warm thus saving bulb life, however this pulse makes the LED's flash.
is this correct ?
does my D3 do this pulse thing, i can check, but if some one has the answer ?
where can i get some of these LED trailer lights from for testing, I recon i can solve this problem CLUB "Ah Shor it'll be grand"
First D3 in the World with a Hydraulic Winch.
2006 Disco 3 TDV6 S Auto,
Diff Locks, Turbochipped, Raised Air Intake, 220volts Onboard, Onboard Compressor, Large Bore Exahust, Underbody Protection, One or two Other Mods as well.
Other toys include, Argo Avenger 8x8, Tatra 6x6 Motorhome (Being Built)
|
| 1st Mar 2007 12:53 am |
|
|
DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50941
|
BJ wrote: naturally blaming the product attached to the LR as the source of the fault is easiest and certainly for LR the most convenient!
Well to be honest TB, a product is either compatible or it isn't and it's up to the customer to satisfy themselves of this prior to purchase. You have to ask yourself who this is a bigger problem for, the trailer manufacturer?.... or LR? Remember that LR have produced a loom that, I would suggest, deals with the 99% of current trailer lighting applications. I appreciate your comments about LED's being the way forward for vehicle lighting applications, but they are not mainstream as yet.
The question will be how many LR vehicle owners are complaining about this issue, I suspect the ones that have purchased the trailer without clear advice from the trailer manufacturer who are obviously aware of the incompatibility.
The source of the fault? I'll say no more  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
|
| 1st Mar 2007 1:11 am |
|
|
jh972
Member Since: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 37
|
Maybe we're missing the point here. LED lights are certainly mainstream enough for me to think that LR and other manufacturers, SHOULD supply equipment that will work with them.
They know we're going to tow trailers, hence the standard towbar and wiring (in Australia) so why wouldn't we tow a trailer as up to date as the car? That means (here at least) that it would have LED lights.
Anyway, more importantly, has anyone found a solution?
|
| 1st Mar 2007 9:21 am |
|
|
Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
|
But in terms of the car being up to date, LR don't use LED's for the lights, so should they be expected to cope with it? with all the electronic gadgetry in these things, perhaps with all the boings and checks that goes in, the software woiuld need some major re-work. I reckon they'll gte some LED stuff for the Disco4 but probably not before. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
|
| 1st Mar 2007 9:24 am |
|
|
BJ
Member Since: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Daventry
Posts: 5
|
christyler wrote:BJ wrote:Any ideas gratefully received.
Can i get some more information. Correct me if i am wrong. When using LED trailer lights
1 the car thinks there is no trailer lights attached, this is solved by a resistor across the indicator LED's-- ok (CONFIRMED)
2 the car emits pulses on the brake light circuit (ON THE INDICATOR LIGHTS CIRCUIT, LEFT then RIGHT, reason probably to satisfy the condition - is the trailer still attached), this i supposed to keep the filiment in the bulb warm thus saving bulb life, however this pulse makes the LED's flash. (MAKES INDICATORS 'STROBE')
is this correct ?
does my D3 do this pulse thing, i can check, but if some one has the answer ? (YOURS WILL DO THE SAME)
where can i get some of these LED trailer lights from for testing, I recon i can solve this problem
(GLADY SEND SOME TO YOU)
WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO RESOLVE THIS NOT ONLY FOR OUR OWN PURPOSES, BUT ALSO IT IS BECOMING AN ISSUE WITH OTHER OWNERS OF LANDROVER PRODUCTS AND OUR TRAILERS. OUR AIM IS TO BE FORWARD LOOKING AND TO DEAL WITH WHAT IS NOW AN OBVIOUS ISSUE, HOWEVER THE FUNDAMENTAL SOURCE OF THE POWER FOR TRAILER LIGHTING IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE TOWCAR, THE MANUFACTURERS OF SUCH YOU WOULD EXPECT TO TAKE THESE ISSUES SERIOUSLY, REFER TO YOUR DEALER!
|
| 1st Mar 2007 9:31 am |
|
|
White Disco
Member Since: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Gondwana. It's raining. We'll All be roon'd.
Posts: 1463
|
Shhhh! Cap lock!!! Did you think I would leave you crying,
When there's room in my D3 for 7,
Climb in here Joe we'll soon be flying,
I can go just as fast with 7.
2005 TDV6 S with Terrain Response (& all that entails), Tasmods (gorn). 2008 TDV6 HSE (gone). A Dark Side umbrella (here) & car (here).
Volkswagen Golf (SWMBO's)
Datsun Insult (SWTSMBOBIO22SHOMSAH)
Datsun Insult (SWTSMBOBIO19SHOMSAH)
4 BMW's (Stents, not the silly cars)
Formerly RED DISCO
|
| 1st Mar 2007 9:34 am |
|
|
Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
|
So, your the seller of these trailers and to a certain extent I agree that the manufacturer should deal with some elements of third party accessories (but they can't be expected to provide guarantees on non LR approved items), but if the solution is a simile capacitor then if you made this solution I would assume that it will then work for most o fthe 'intelligent' cars that are on the market. Thus making you non specific to a particular manufacturer but able to work with all. That would be the way I see to expand your market instead of moaning about the manufacturers not being set up for LED technology?
Or is it just me not seeing it.....
btw I don't work in the automotive industry at all, but it just makes sense to me. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
|
| 1st Mar 2007 9:42 am |
|
|
|
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
DISCO4.COM Copyright © 2004-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
|
|
