I look forward to drinking (post-Brexit, even more tariff-free) South African Pinotage to that!
That's a big shortfall in trade to make up. How much will you be drinking?
er … those figures are for EXPORTS, so you're drinking SA vino is making things worse !
29th Aug 2018 7:50 am
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5103
Disco_Mikey wrote:
That's a big shortfall in trade to make up. How much will you be drinking?
Of course, the relative lack of trade is partly due to the barriers put up by the protectionist EU.
Why do we have limited quotas on the import of South African wine? It surely isn't to protect the UK wine industry.
Why do we have tariffs on the import of tropical fruit? Surely it isn't to protect the UK producers of tropical fruit.
There is plenty of substitution of EU food and drink - not £240bn worth, but then the trade with the EU won't stop.
As our trade with the rest of the world heads more toward 'free trade' I think we will see the proportion of trade with the EU reduce, as it should.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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29th Aug 2018 8:08 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
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I think it makes sense to import as much as possible from the countries closest in proximity to us.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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29th Aug 2018 8:15 am
Moo D3 Decade
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I'd rather export more to the countries closest to us.D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
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29th Aug 2018 8:34 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
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Of course. 👍2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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29th Aug 2018 8:36 am
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5103
RRSTDV8 wrote:
The referendum was not made a binding one, either by the manifesto or, more importantly, by Parliament.
"The will of the people" can change and if our democracy is to be worth the name, it must take account of that.
The manifesto of the governing party commited to leave the EU, even under a no-deal scenario.
There were a great many years when we were members of the EC/EU when public opinion was highly against (65:35 IIRC) being members and yet it has taken a general election with manifesto commitments to both hold the referendum and carry out the result of it.
I think if the contrary view wants another referendum they too can have it from a Government that is elected on that basis. To embark on a course where the original referendum is rejected would be to go against manifesto commitments. If manifesto commitments of the governing party are not just to be sidelined but reversed that should certainly only happen in the context of a General Election.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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29th Aug 2018 8:38 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
DG wrote:
OK I'm going to have my say on the last 24hrs...warts and all.
The original brexit thread grew considerably as a debating chamber ...in the main it was just that ....with some wondrous observations of both facts, conjecture and humour from both sides ...occasionally it got a bit steamy but ultimately it was good natured and I truly believe that we were all learning a little something from either side.
In recent weeks it became rather more controversial with reasonable debate being stifled in certain respects. Tempers became raised by a flat-lined aggressive stance at times and the response to this became elevated, including my own as a participant.
In light of that, I felt the only course of action was to lock the old thread and start a new one with very defined rules. The point here was that, in pursuit of light humour and genuine debate, we could have somehow continued.
The outcome was tbh a disaster...why? because not only was the perceived protagonist unable to keep their requirement ...but also others from the opposite viewpoint ...my own viewpoint, were also unable to contain themselves in an equal measure of the enhanced rules.
My view and advice is that where you know responses will be completely fruitless ...the don't respond ..don't provide oxygen.
The fact that Martin has become involved is somewhat embarrassing ....I do genuinely hope that a reasoned debate on this vital , once in a lifetime topic, can return at some point
So it is your fault if we are now in another section and even without Brexit in the title of the discussion
It takes all sorts (to make a world).
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Last edited by Riccardo on 29th Aug 2018 8:45 am. Edited 1 time in total
29th Aug 2018 8:39 am
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
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LT wrote:
I think it makes sense to import as much as possible from the countries closest in proximity to us.
The EU will have the advantage of geographic proximity.
Why further disadvantage African nations by having quotas and tariffs?Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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29th Aug 2018 8:45 am
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
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Moo wrote:
I'd rather export more to the countries closest to us.
I'd rather export to as many countries as possible, as much as possible, with as few barriers as possible.
I fear that is not possible under the Common External Tariff mechanism.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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29th Aug 2018 8:46 am
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
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it’ll be very interesting to see what happens in Sweden on Sep 9th. If they end up forcing the EU to reconsider some of their current policies then that might have an impact on Brexit. There are many people in Sweden simply wanting the same concessions Cameron failed to get from the EU before the referendum. I’m surprised it’s taking Germany the EU so long to realise what they are getting so wrong if they want continued long term support.2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
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29th Aug 2018 8:51 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
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Is this "project domino effect" again, desperately hoping that at one time it will start?
Again a lot of people in EU wants changes and that is without a doubt. Big tension on immigration etc
UK was very important within EU to balance "other powers" and it is a shame it will not be there anymore
Brexit could have been a big push to EU to prove the value of being part of it
Sadly the way Brexit is going is far from pushing other countries to follow the same line
Also in the future for the UK no need to worry about EU as they will neither be involved in it nor they will have a sayIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
D3 HSE LHD gone but not forgotten
29th Aug 2018 9:05 am
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
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No domino effect... and no desperation. It'll probably take the EU 20 years plus before they realise what's gone wrong. I simply thought it might be interesting to keep an eye on what happens in Sweden. I've just got back from there and many do seem to be expressing similar concerns to those expressed in the UK a couple of years ago.
But anyway, if the EU was to hint at concessions before March, you don't think that might have an impact on any future votes in the UK?2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
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29th Aug 2018 9:22 am
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
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I've never really 'got' that very widely used meme.
It implies a real desire that the UK would cause a collapse of the EU, whereas I've never seen much of that. Of course it exists to some extent, but I never saw it as widespread. I don't think many people were motivated to vote Brexit in order to bring about the fall of the EU...they saw it as a way of the UK leaving the EU - that was certainly was the case for me.
I haven't ever seen any polling regarding Brexit voting to bring about the collapse of the EU.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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29th Aug 2018 9:27 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
crews control wrote:
But anyway, if the EU was to hint at concessions before March, you don't think that might have an impact on any future votes in the UK?
I still hope in some changes in the EU but still prefer EU to be there and to be part of it
Do not think that the vote at the referendum was really driven by an accurate assessment of what being part of EU means (what is an advantage and what is a disadvantage) as a proper assessment particularly regarding the real advantages and opportunities is not available even now. It was very emotionally driven. I think British people never really felt part of EU.
I even think that some people thought certain things were due to EU even if those were actually not
The difference would have been more political as probably Cameron would not have gone ahead with the referendumIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
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Last edited by Riccardo on 29th Aug 2018 9:42 am. Edited 1 time in total
29th Aug 2018 9:33 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
crews control wrote:
I’m surprised it’s taking Germany the EU so long to realise what they are getting so wrong if they want continued long term support.
27 countries "getting it so wrong" ??
Meanwhile 2 countries are begging ...we are one of them
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