Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
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It was Plasma rope rather than Wire.
TBH if it was wire, then I personally would have had more distance between myself and the car (and also my lad who took the photo) would have been further away.
My view is that Plasma might whip smartly, but would not cause lost legs (but please correct me as it's only an assumption).
In hindsight, it would have been wise to have at least a pulley, but the distance to the most suitable tree was getting towards the end of the rope (plus additional 10m rope from the tree) (although clearly not AT the end)
Just to assist, can anyone draw a basic diagram about how you 'should' do this with an additional static line & what type of device you would use to adjust the static line easily? Bodsys Brake Bible
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 11th Mar 2008 12:22 pm |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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I think the idea of the static line is that you just attach it between the vehicle and something solid, in this case it would have been the tree behind and slightly up hill from Sonic. You don't adjust it during the operation (apart from perhaps to keep it from being run over by the winching vehicle). Should the plasma fail the vehicle would only fall back to the start point of the winch operation rather than all the way down the hill, which was a pretty long way.
That was what I thought Tony meant anyway. Does anyone with a bit more winching knowledge want to set me straight?
Non Stick Nick wrote:What would be much worse is if the observer was not fully aware of the consequences.
A very good point, but I can't honestly say that I knew that everyone else knew what the risks involved were. I should have checked beforehand.
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| 11th Mar 2008 12:42 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
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What is very very clear from this reasoned discussion is that there is an appetite for winch training. I'm sure TFC / AndrewS will be along with training suggestions
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| 11th Mar 2008 12:46 pm |
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Sonic3d
Member Since: 22 Nov 2005
Location: Ross on Wye Herefordshire
Posts: 872
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1 It was plasma so i felt comfortable with the situation
2 What the photo can not show is that the vehicle was holding on its own brakes, and i was about to rewind
the rope to prevent it spooling all on one side causing damage I can resist everything except TEMPTATION
Can Am Commander 1000XT
Seen the light and bought a 4Motion T5
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:07 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
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Ken wrote:What is very very clear from this reasoned discussion is that there is an appetite for winch training. I'm sure TFC / AndrewS will be along with training suggestions
Please but not one of those all day up a mountain sessions though 
Some safety training, examples of technique and session where each has to take the trainer through the process to ensure they understood.
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:10 pm |
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AndrewS
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Member Since: 06 May 2005
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Winch training will be available at Easter if required.
My 2ps worth. I cant see how anyone can criticise this winching operation with the info shown. I expect the observer is out of the danger zone, and would have made his own risk assessment before approaching the vehicle.
Static Line no need if a safe run off is available. Remember the hill decent will help control the vehicle.
OK here are a few questions.
What terrain response setting should have been selected.
What gear should the vehicle be in whilst winching up the steep hill. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:13 pm |
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Bodsy
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simon wrote:Ken wrote:What is very very clear from this reasoned discussion is that there is an appetite for winch training. I'm sure TFC / AndrewS will be along with training suggestions
Please but not one of those all day up a mountain sessions though
Some safety training, examples of technique and session where each has to take the trainer through the process to ensure they understood.
Yup, that sounds good.
Can't do March though, but April /May would be good.
Would prefer a small group, perhaps 4 people? taking turns at all of the winching elements in different situations.
And as for being a reasoned discussion, I think it's one of the most reasoned I've seen for a long time  Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:17 pm |
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Wex
Member Since: 16 Apr 2007
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Big to do about nothing IMO
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:17 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
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AndrewS wrote:
What terrain response setting should have been selected.
Pub Crawl
AndrewS wrote:
What gear should you be in whilst winching up the steep hill.
Hmm, tricky. Army surplus DPM and a leather hat? Or faded jeans and a polo shirt? I'll go with jeans and a polo shirt (Disco3, obviously) I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:23 pm |
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Bodsy
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Not a big do about nothing DW, but it raises some valid points about some (reasonably) intelligent people & whether we have all of the skills to be able to make the right judgement in relation to winching & how else perhaps we could have approached the situation in a safer way.
There was no injury, we all had a great day so no great drama, some of us just want to learn a little more. Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:26 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
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Ok, serious answers. TR? Anything with HDC on would be my preference so if it turned into a failed hill climb I could get back down with some degree of control.
As for what gear, I'd go with neutral, ready to get it in reverse if it all goes Pete Tong. Not thinking that you'd get a lot of assistance from driven wheels on a hill like that so you'd be looking at a dead-weight lift. Probably very wrong.... Also not knowing the speed of that winch, I wonder if even rock crawl low-range 1st is slow enough to not have yourself overtaking the speed/ability of the winch? Really don't know, not having any real experience of winch recovery (and not anticipating putting myself and vehicle in any situation where it may be required).
Be good to know the right answers though I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:30 pm |
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Bodsy
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I'd go for TR off low range (which you would be in already) HDC on and in D....?
What's the recommendation then Andrew? Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:33 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
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Surely its easier to winch a vehicle with driven wheels (low 1st or 2nd depending on the gradient) than a dead weight.
TR mode... not sure but as ND says, one with HDC engaged. Possibly Mud and Ruts so you get good engine braking and also less change of wheel spin when moving forwards. Even GGS as this would reduce any possible wheel spin whilst winching.
Last edited by simon on 11th Mar 2008 1:52 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:36 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
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NoDo$h wrote:...and not anticipating putting myself and vehicle in any situation where it may be required...
You may need a winch even on the flat of your up to your axles in mud
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:37 pm |
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AndrewS
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Member Since: 06 May 2005
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Bodsy wrote:
What's the recommendation then Andrew?
Clear and safe run off
I would have my car in Low Box but in Neutral ready to engage reverse should there be a failure. Hill Decent turned on. I would have also put the vehicle in Rock Crawl before climbing the hill as this locks the diffs and would ensure that all the wheels are rotating the same direction that the vehicle is travelling. Thus giving a more controlled recovery.
Drive Assist. I would let the winch do the work. If the car does find traction and takes over the speed of the winch it just gets messy. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 11th Mar 2008 1:59 pm |
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