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1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 170
  
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Notquiteadisco wrote:
Yes all the vehicles involved are air suspension and all have a form of adaptive damping.
Which LR models are these with adaptive damping? Defender 110 SE 2021, Tasman Blue
Discovery 1 V8 ES 1997, Epsom green
Discovery 3 V8 HSE 2006, Bonatti Grey
Range Rover V8 1983, Sierra Silver
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 27th Mar 2024 10:32 am |
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1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 170
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alex0264 wrote:1784 wrote:As mentioned previously, there are no electronics involved in the ride quality of a D3/D4 as long as the air suspension heights are correct (which has been confirmed they are).
You could create another scenario - imagine a fault develops in the ride level control module itself, which causes the entire EAS system to dump all air, from the springs, the reservoir, the whole lot. The car is then going to be down on the bump stops and quite literally bouncing down the road. Are you saying that this would not be an electrical fault causing poor ride quality in that scenario.
As I wrote above, the electronic module does manage the ride height through airbag pressure and selecting different heights will affect the ride quality. But that is also the only control it has, and as you mention the affected vehicle sits on normal height, then that's it when it comes to electronic control of the suspension. Once the requested height is reached, the ride quality is up to the air in the bags and the conventional dampers, bushings and tyres.
As you doubt my explanation, please check LR's own description in the "Description and operation" of the Vehicle dynamic suspension section in the manual available on the sites wiki page. Defender 110 SE 2021, Tasman Blue
Discovery 1 V8 ES 1997, Epsom green
Discovery 3 V8 HSE 2006, Bonatti Grey
Range Rover V8 1983, Sierra Silver
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| 27th Mar 2024 10:49 am |
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itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 256
  
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The workshop manual is a fantastic read for those interested in learning about the air suspension system on the disco4. For comparisons sake, have a read of the xjr and xkr workshop manuals.
Yes, different forms of dampers are available for some vehicles. The XJR and XKR use examples of this adaptive and dynamic technology thus adjusting the dampening rate as necessary, dynamically or manually.
BUT such dampers are NOT installed on a disco4. The air spring is strictly designed for ride height changes. There is no active dampening circuit or pathway to adjust “ride quality”.
What I have seen and sadly experienced are some who install LT rated tires on their vehicles, inflated to setting well beyond what the disco4 was engineered for.
Cheers to all.
G. 2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
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| 27th Mar 2024 10:54 am |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
  
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1784 wrote:alex0264 wrote:1784 wrote:As mentioned previously, there are no electronics involved in the ride quality of a D3/D4 as long as the air suspension heights are correct (which has been confirmed they are).
You could create another scenario - imagine a fault develops in the ride level control module itself, which causes the entire EAS system to dump all air, from the springs, the reservoir, the whole lot. The car is then going to be down on the bump stops and quite literally bouncing down the road. Are you saying that this would not be an electrical fault causing poor ride quality in that scenario.
As I wrote above, the electronic module does manage the ride height through airbag pressure and selecting different heights will affect the ride quality. But that is also the only control it has, and as you mention the affected vehicle sits on normal height, then that's it when it comes to electronic control of the suspension. Once the requested height is reached, the ride quality is up to the air in the bags and the conventional dampers, bushings and tyres.
As you doubt my explanation, please check LR's own description in the "Description and operation" of the Vehicle dynamic suspension section in the manual available on the sites wiki page.
Sorry, I can assure you that it's Land Rover that I doubt, not you.
I'm dropping out of this thread now, as I've just had enough. £4k plus spent and the problem still exists, enough is enough.
All the best folks - I hope you have some success ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 27th Mar 2024 11:29 am |
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1784
Member Since: 04 Sep 2009
Location: Almunge
Posts: 170
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Sounds like a good plan. Hope you will find another mean of transportation that will cause less frustration and anger. Defender 110 SE 2021, Tasman Blue
Discovery 1 V8 ES 1997, Epsom green
Discovery 3 V8 HSE 2006, Bonatti Grey
Range Rover V8 1983, Sierra Silver
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| 27th Mar 2024 11:41 am |
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Notquiteadisco
Member Since: 12 Dec 2023
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 8
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1784 wrote:Notquiteadisco wrote:
Yes all the vehicles involved are air suspension and all have a form of adaptive damping.
Which LR models are these with adaptive damping?
2x 2009 L322 3.6, 1 x 2011 L322 4.4 and a 2015 L405 4.4.
All with continuously variable damping.
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| 27th Mar 2024 12:44 pm |
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Notquiteadisco
Member Since: 12 Dec 2023
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 8
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itsaguything wrote:
The workshop manual is a fantastic read for those interested in learning about the air suspension system on the disco4. For comparisons sake, have a read of the xjr and xkr workshop manuals.
Yes, different forms of dampers are available for some vehicles. The XJR and XKR use examples of this adaptive and dynamic technology thus adjusting the dampening rate as necessary, dynamically or manually.
BUT such dampers are NOT installed on a disco4. The air spring is strictly designed for ride height changes. There is no active dampening circuit or pathway to adjust “ride quality”.
What I have seen and sadly experienced are some who install LT rated tires on their vehicles, inflated to setting well beyond what the disco4 was engineered for.
Cheers to all.
G.
I must admit this is what confuses me with the Disco 4 problem as it doesn't have a form of variable damping so on a stock car (I.e standard type tyres at recommended pressures) the only things that could cause a hard ride are bad shock absorbers.
If the pressure was too high in the airbags then the car would be sitting higher up.
This 'phenomenon' is even stranger on the D4s than it is on my RRs or my non LR car.
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| 27th Mar 2024 12:46 pm |
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itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 256
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hmmm, maybe... I have no experience with a worn damper causing a firm ride. A bouncy ride, absolutely, but not a firm ride.
Yes, I have humoured myself with reading some of the Range Rover forums. As I do not have one, I refrain from registering and posting. Many of the posts on the suspension management show a significant lack of knowledge or a complete misinterpretation on the topic as well.
And to put it to rest, there is not a single model of the Discovery that has active/adaptive/dynamic/ (or whatever other name someone comes up with) dampers. The tell tale sign is to lift the bonnet and look at the top of the struts. If you have wires going to it, you may have. If you only have the air tube, you do not.
Cheers to all! 2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
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| 27th Mar 2024 4:38 pm |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
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There were a couple of bits I meant to add before signing off from this thread, so I will add these below.
For anyone else trying to diagnose this issue, have a think about whether there was any kind of 'event' that occurred before the ride went bad. Was it a gradual thing, or did you drive the car one day and suddenly it was bad.
My 2014 HSE was fine until I hit a nasty hole in the road on the O/S/F corner, and it starting getting rough after about a week of driving after. Bushes and shock absorber were not damaged.
My 2015 HSE Lux was fine until the battery failed in spectacular fashion on Christmas day - when attempting to start the car it went bonkers, the needles on the clocks were jumping around, the lights were stuck on and I had to abandon the car. Since then that is when the ride quality started going bad. I should also add that the garage I bought it from pressure wash their engine bays before sale. I know Land Rover's are supposed to deal with water, but in my opinion blasting high velocity water under the bonnet really isn't great.
Hope the above might help slightly, just wanted to add those bits. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 31st Mar 2024 6:38 pm |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
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itsaguything wrote:hmmm, maybe... I have no experience with a worn damper causing a firm ride. A bouncy ride, absolutely, but not a firm ride.
Cheers to all!
Completely agree - on my 2014 HSE I had new shocks, and both upper and lower track control arms on the rear (genuine LR parts) - did not make the slightest bit of difference, nearly £2k of notes burnt for nothing!
Don't bother with valve blocks either, did all 3 and still no different. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 31st Mar 2024 6:40 pm |
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Notquiteadisco
Member Since: 12 Dec 2023
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 8
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alex0264 wrote:There were a couple of bits I meant to add before signing off from this thread, so I will add these below.
For anyone else trying to diagnose this issue, have a think about whether there was any kind of 'event' that occurred before the ride went bad. Was it a gradual thing, or did you drive the car one day and suddenly it was bad.
My 2014 HSE was fine until I hit a nasty hole in the road on the O/S/F corner, and it starting getting rough after about a week of driving after. Bushes and shock absorber were not damaged.
My 2015 HSE Lux was fine until the battery failed in spectacular fashion on Christmas day - when attempting to start the car it went bonkers, the needles on the clocks were jumping around, the lights were stuck on and I had to abandon the car. Since then that is when the ride quality started going bad. I should also add that the garage I bought it from pressure wash their engine bays before sale. I know Land Rover's are supposed to deal with water, but in my opinion blasting high velocity water under the bonnet really isn't great.
Hope the above might help slightly, just wanted to add those bits.
That's interesting ref your 2014 HSE Alex, my 3rd L322 was the same... driving fine, hit a bad pot hole on a cobbled road entering a car park and when I jumped back in to leave I noticed the hard ride straight away (shock absorber was also not damaged on mine)
Can I ask Alex is it only the ride affected on your car(s) or do you also note a degradation/lag in throttle reponse and heavier/firmer steering too like me?
The new non LR car was fine one night when I parked it up after having adjusted tyre pressures to factory spec (they weren't that far out anyway) but the one thing I did was plug in well respected windows based 3rd party diagnostics to do some coding and the next day it was just like all my RRs all the same faults/complaints!
I happened to read a thread last night where someone found his phone charger was causing a lack of throttle reponse coupled with heavier steering on his BMW.
Yes its not an LR but it did make me wonder if something external could be causing these problems we are facing?
Cheers
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| 3rd Apr 2024 9:55 pm |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
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Honestly, I wish I could give you a definitive answer. The truth is it's been going on so long I've just lost track of all the things that have or haven't happened.
At times when it's at it's worst, the steering becomes stupidly light (almost dangerous), and the car feels like it would tip over at the slightest twitch of the wheel. It's also at this moment that the car seems to get stuck in a certain gear, and eventually it wakes up and realises it needs to shift up a gear.
Again, I wish I could give you something useful to work with, but I simply can't. This week the ride has actually been slightly better, and the only thing I've done different is use the stop/start each day. Then today it is back to it's old self again, which is exactly why I say it's electrical, because a bush or shock absorber doesn't pick days that's good or bad, it's either in a working state or it's failed.
Good luck with it - I do hope you or someone in this thread has some success with this. As Fox Mulder said, the truth is out there, you've just got to find it. Find the culprit causing the problem in these cars and we'll be laughing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 4th Apr 2024 8:36 pm |
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Notquiteadisco
Member Since: 12 Dec 2023
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 8
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Sounds similar except the steering on yours being the opposite of what I experience.
All my cars have too had good and bad days but never a perfect day.
I completely agree it's electrical and as per the x files reference we will one day find the truth out there.
Do you plan to move on from this Discovery to something else given your suffering the same issue as your previous one much like I have with all mine?
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| 4th Apr 2024 8:47 pm |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
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I have actually made some minor progress with this over the weekend. I decided to test the valves using the IID tool, and noticed that after a few (short) tests raising the front up and down (as this is far worse in ride quality than the back), it got to a point where it was barely raising at all. I should add that I don't think I'd done it enough times to empty the reservoir, the compressor temp was around 60 degrees, and the back was going up and down without issue. I can only assume this means an air supply issue to the front springs, or a potential compressor problem.
Something I've failed to add is that unfortunately the car has polybushes on the front lower control arms, which frankly I think are disastrous on any Discovery. I should say though that obviously the car rode fine on them when I bought it, but I'm actually wondering if these are causing the slow raising of the front.
@Notquiteadisco - I'm going to persevere with this for now, as I'm not going to be beaten by a machine. I'll keep you posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 7th Apr 2024 3:55 pm |
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alex0264
Member Since: 16 Apr 2012
Location: Taunton
Posts: 136
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For anybody still reading (I don't blame you if you've tuned out!).
After I don't know how long I have finally identified the 'trigger' for this problem. One word, speed.
Effectively the ride in my car is fine after starting it up, until you go over either 10 or 15 MPH. I've tested this numerous times parking near a speed hump, stopping and starting the car, going over it at around 10 MPH and noting that there is a good amount of 'bounce' or travel in the suspension. If I then drive away and exceed 10/15 MPH and come back and drive over the same road hump at the same speed as before, there is barely any give in the suspension at all.
This I'm hoping will really make sense to someone. I also find that sometimes when driving away I hear the ABS pump doing something. I honestly feel like I might be cornering the culprit now, just need to identify why speed has an direct effect on it. The car is booked in again in a couple of weeks (it's genuinely embarrassing now), so I will mention it to them as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 - D4 HSE Luxury Scotia Grey - Pending...
2014 - D4 HSE Indus Silver - A total mystery
2011 - D4 HSE Stornoway Grey - Legendary car
2006 - D3 HSE Buckingham Blue - Moneypit v1
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| 18th Apr 2024 7:34 pm |
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