countrywide wrote:

One question, how is any of this different to engine remaps.

I was thinking exactly the same.

The only minor difference is that the engines on all versions are pretty much the same but making features available on a (for example) XS that you pay extra for on an HSE may be viewed as unfair. I'm not sure I concur with thinking.

Pelyma wrote:

CW right back at the beginning of time similar discussions were had about remaps and all these issues came to light.

That's what I am saying, lot's of comments have been made about exactly the same topic, yet many people have now got a remap.

If the system starts to blow up loads of the cars it will fail, but until or if this happens then surely it's worth having a constructive dialogue rather than just righting it off with arguments already seen before on technology which is now regarded as (and rightly so) acceptable.

To me the key thing is stil the competence of the person operating the box. It's like being an explosive expert, it's not pressing the button or having the right equipment, it's putting the explosives in the right place and having the right amount

Gaza wrote:

The only minor difference is that the engines on all versions are pretty much the same but making features available on a (for example) XS that you pay extra for on an HSE may be viewed as unfair. I'm not sure I concur with thinking.

simon wrote:

'Robbing' a manufacturer of valuable margin is akin to 'theft'. You are denying that company the extra profit by buying a lower spec and then up-speccing it yourself.

Remaps on the TDV6 are not robbing the manufacturer of margin. Every diesel D3 has the same engine and the same map.

The 'devalueing' argument is getting a bit tired to be honest.

I would love to have a TDV8 RRS.....I have seriously thought about buying one and my wife likes them (which as we know is half the battle).

I now have my TDV6 remapped and I have talked myself out of buying a TDV8 because I see it as redundant now. I get to keep my beloved D3 and it now has enough power to drive 'the way it should'.

So, in other words, having a remap means that I have stolen potential profits from LR as I no longer feel to need to consider buying a RRS TDV8. In fact I'm sure that quite a few members of this forum would have moved away from the D3 to a different vehicle if it were not possible to significantly improve upon the ±190bhp of the standard TDV6.

Or maybe I just improved my own car (the one that I bought and paid LR for) by modifying it. Countrywide's argument is very valid to me....A remap is just another way of upping the spec of your actual vehicle. The same as the front PDC that I added etc etc. In fact, I would guess that half of the messages on this forum (and any other car-related forum) are about improvements, modifications and tweaks - often done by circumventing manufacturer-imposed limits (such as engine maps or locked-out sat nav options).

As for the whole 'offer hundreds of features and let the users test them' - let's keep it in perspective...BBS seem to have just opened up access to all CCF editable functions and there's a lot of them....we've all seen BBS Spy's test units. It's painfully obvious that it would be impossible for them to test all of them and I feel he's been quite clear about that during the last few weeks.

I think it would also seem be clear that the main market for the Faultmate kit is out-of-warranty vehicles whose owners do not want to be tied to a dealer network for their not-so-new Discovery 3 in a couple of years time.

I believe Autologic now offer the Sat Nav on the move update too....which is great news....but isn't that update a chargeable item at LR dealers and therefore 'stealing' LR profits too?

Please understand that I don't want to provoke anymore arguing, but if Autologic could offer the same Standard->Premium sat nav update would the same arguments be applied to their kit by the same people that are currently questioning BBS?

I also agree that the person 'pressing the buttons' is very very important . But when it comes to a hobbyist enabling a few features on their own D3 I think they're entitled to risk it. It is one thing to start playing with engine parameters and remapping (way out of most hobbyist's league), but choosing Yes or No to enable a Sat Nav option is probably a much safer bet and better risk.

PaulP wrote:

I get to keep my beloved D3 .

PaulP wrote:

A remap is just another way of upping the spec of your actual vehicle.

funny, I have never seen an option to buy a D3 sport . best go and take them offroad tyres off my D3 then

if people wish to 'tinker' with their vehicle then great but what if someone buys one of these false specs and then has an issue only to find the dealer cannot put it back the way it were. you must have your own kit or get it put back . is the tinkerer going to sell his kit with the D3 or reapply the changes when asked to. those who mod, will they disclose the changes to the next owner. pretty dishonest if you dont. this would apply to remaps also

catweasel wrote:

obviously the RRS didnt suit you so I doubt you would have bought it or been happy in it anyway.

I could have been convinced (if the RRS had 7 seats), but you're right - I would feel much more at home in the D3 to be honest My point was that remapping my D3 made such a difference that it meant that it wasn't so necessary for me to start looking at alternatives.

catweasel wrote:

funny, I have never seen an option to buy a D3 sport . best go and take them offroad tyres off my D3 then

I think it's clear what I meant when I say 'upping the spec' that I'm talking about improving upon the current specification/performance with respect to engine output and not changing from a XS to a HSE (but you knew this didn't you )

catweasel wrote:

if people wish to 'tinker' with their vehicle then great but what if someone buys one of these false specs and then has an issue only to find the dealer cannot put it back the way it were. you must have your own kit or get it put back

catweasel wrote:

. is the tinkerer going to sell his kit with the D3 or reapply the changes when asked to. those who mod, will they disclose the changes to the next owner. pretty dishonest if you dont. this would apply to remaps also

Now we're getting into morality and honesty and this, in my opinion, is beyond the remit of the forum. The honesty of D3 owners has nothing to do with the sponsor that is being critiscised for offering products that offer these 'possibilities'

I love you guys in Aus - always up and about whilst I'm having my late night whisky and trawl around the forums

CW

wiggs wrote:

..i keep hoping one day i will wake up and know everything about everything ...without having the need to learn anything first

Well said I think it applies to alot of people !

wiggs wrote:

Personally (wether considered right or wrong) i would put the original ccf file back on .

wiggs wrote:

If when i sold the car someone asked me to leave the extras on it ..i would be more than happy ..

wiggs wrote:

Another point ..if a dealer spotted a 4 x 4 info screen on the screen and it was an SE model ..would he then go and check if that person had actually speced it at time of purchase ..i think not .

wiggs wrote:

While the talk of remaps , would it be fair to sell the car on and not tell someone ?..should the car not be put back to standard in that issue aswell ?.

when a remap is purchased the purchasee is fully aware that the remap will be installed only to the original purchaser so as with the upspeccing if this is declared to the new owner then I cant see an issue.

Im not interested in the changing of the ccf file but its diagnostic capability so enough of this rubbish and do a diagnostics thread
if you havent already