Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
Oil in exhaust manifold
A new problem with my disco.
I have about 2L to 2,5L oil consumption on 1000km. This amount builds up over the last 4.000 km.
I have checked the intercooler hose and found some oil in the hose to the intercooler and from the intercooler. Not so much, but some big drops came out the hoses after disconnecting.
So I decided to remove the Turbo and check it. Now the Turbo ist out and I found oil in the exhaust manifold from the left cylinder bank. the other side is dry, as you can see on the Foto and video.
Has anyone an idea?
Last edited by wedgev8 on 29th Jan 2020 6:55 am. Edited 1 time in total
28th Jan 2020 12:53 pm
Browny90
Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 687
I would look at having the seals replaced in the turbo in the first instance, especially while its already out.
If you can find a turbo specialist, they may be able to confirm if the seals were leaking, and replace if required. If they confirm the seals were then you can be confident in refitting the turbo without stripping further..
I would also removed the intercooler and associated hosed to clean them. A good way of washing the intercooler out is to pour a few liters of brake cleaner through it, block the ports and shake it around, do that a few times and let it dry well and it will be nice and clean.. failing brake cleaner I've also used petrol in the past too.. obviously do this when it's out of the car and make sure theres nothing left in it when you refit..Disco4 MY16 SDV6 Landmark Black
Disco4 MY12 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey (Gone)
Defender 90 200tdi Completely rebuilt.
28th Jan 2020 1:06 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
… taking the turbo to a specialist is my plan, but I am confused about the oil in the exhaust manifold left side and not in the crossoverpipe side.
28th Jan 2020 1:15 pm
Rmacaul
Member Since: 05 Apr 2017
Location: Angus
Posts: 136
Turbo is after the crossover pipe on left side exhaust. So if the turbo oil seals are suspect on the exhaust side your oil will follow with the exhaust gas not backwards into the crossover.
28th Jan 2020 2:27 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
… but a suspect oil seal in the turbo may give oil into the direction of the exhaust gas flow. So it should go through the turbine into the following exhaust pipes. When you look my video, you can see oil is going back into the exhaust manifold. Oil is going against the exhaust gas flow direction. Or it is coming from the cylinder head, from the valve stem seals for example. But I had never seen so massive oil consumption caused by defective valve seals.
28th Jan 2020 2:44 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
can be another problem, but looks like a worn out turbo bearing..
not specifick "seals" IMHO (as in your engine or gearbox) , as there are no "rubber" or "nbr" like seals in a turbo, they would only burn very quick on the exhaust side..
if worn you can feel it, there is exessive end play on the shaft..
if the bearing is NOT worn, you can investigate further, but untill you checked the bearing, i should not worry (because that is to early and can be for nothing )
how many miles/km's has your Disco done anyway?
you can consider doing this if you can feel end play:
if you can take a turbo out of a car, you can change this yourself... i did it earlyer on several motors, mostly Saab high performance turbo's... these allready balanced bearings cassette's do last long in my ownershop and are plug & play really... easy peasy... (i have no connection to this firm, just used a few times their parts and satisfied with it..Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
28th Jan 2020 2:51 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
regarding gasflow... that is more complicated than you say... the flow or shockwave in an exhaust system is bi-directional at least... it goes towards the end tail and all back to the exhaust valve, and again and again.. you do not really now when the surge of oil happens... can be when you "brake" on your engine... do not know the englisch word for this (foot of the pedal end driving down a hill for instance)Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
28th Jan 2020 3:02 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
...yes I know there are no rubber sealings in the turbo. When I turn and feel the main shaft in the Turbo it seems to have only minimal end play. I baught the car about 1 year ago and do not know who owened it before. The car has 145.000 km (5000 from me). It seems not to be the first Turbo in the car. It looks like someone has changed it before.
28th Jan 2020 3:08 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
is it a genuine turbo? if it is a cheap replica, it can be wrong from the factory or shortly after..
what you can do is performing a compression test on all cylinders... for peace of mind... rule out burnt or badly seated valve's, cheap to do, just a few hours work, removing the injectors
(some are easy and quick to remove but others incase of dirt and/or rust hmmmmmm can take a while, do not ask me how i know )Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
28th Jan 2020 3:56 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
That looks to be a lot of oil laying there.
I reckon maybe remove the manifold, and see which cyl if any the oil is coming from a specific cylinder, not going to be easy but hopefully give you a definitive answer.
28th Jan 2020 4:26 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
Motolab wrote:
is it a genuine turbo? if it is a cheap replica, it can be wrong from the factory or shortly after..
what you can do is performing a compression test on all cylinders... for peace of mind... rule out burnt or badly seated valve's, cheap to do, just a few hours work, removing the injectors
...I dont know if it is a genuine turbo. A Borg Warner sign is fixed with rivet, but everybody can fix a sign to a chinese or bad rebuild turbo.
Compression test I can do by two ways, by injectors or by the glow plugs. Both I had changed last summer. So they should come out easyly. Must have a look who can give me a compression tool.
But the engine is/was running very good. smooth idle and good torque while acceleration.
Also I have measured the crankcase pressure. About -10mbar while running on the road and around 0mbar at idle.
28th Jan 2020 5:28 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
lynalldiscovery wrote:
That looks to be a lot of oil laying there.
I reckon maybe remove the manifold, and see which cyl if any the oil is coming from a specific cylinder, not going to be easy but hopefully give you a definitive answer.
… yes, this is also an option. First I will let a Turbo specialist have a look on the Turbo.
28th Jan 2020 5:31 pm
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
...today I visited two Turbo specialists in two different companies and showed my turbo to them.
First we found out, it is not the genuine LR Turbo. Someone has rebuilt it with a non genuine middle part/turbine shaft. (not borg warner)
They took a look from the outside and both said, the end play of the shaft is OK.
But the oil in the exhaust manifold side is a problem. Both said it is not from the turbo. The oil cannot go into the exhaust manifold against the exhaust gas flow. Not possible.
Aaarrrgghhhh…...
To Harold: ...are you sure that oil can go also back into the exhaust manifold? Do you have any further information on this.
31st Jan 2020 3:31 pm
WRFrance
Member Since: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Down South
Posts: 14
Hi there,
Don't know f your Disco has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) but here is one more point to check.
If your DPF is very blocked the backpressure in the exhaust system will be that high, that the turbo seal will not work properly anymore. Oil from the turbo oil feed will be pushed into the intercooler and intake. It may even build up in the exhaust manifold if you had the engine idle for some amounts of time as the normal pressure system in the turbo is totally disturbed.
I had this on a Defender 2.2 Td4 that ran on a farm and never reached the temperatures to regenerate the DPF.
Good Luck!
1st Feb 2020 9:56 am
wedgev8
Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 181
...yes it has a DPF and yes, it is often blocked. And yes, I know about the problem with the oil in the intercooler in cause of blocked DPF. This is also the reason I will delete and remove the DPF after refitting the Turbo. But I am totally confused because of the oil in the turbine inlet side of the turbo. And the specialists said that this is not possible. They told me the oil can only come from valve stem seals or piston (oil-)rings on this side of the turbo. Also there is the question why is oil only in the left side of the exhaust manifold. The right side, where the crossover pipe is connected is dry. you can see in the video above.
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then you can be confident in refitting the turbo without stripping further..
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