Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73092
Wrong thread.
12th May 2014 7:30 pm
Sloss
Member Since: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Aberdeenish
Posts: 1691
tcr4x4 wrote:
This was legal, maybe morally wrong, but legal..
Blame the idiots who write the rules and allow these loopholes to be taken advantage of.
Perfectly true but morally wrong....
I looked at such a scheme - your Invoices get paid into an overseas company - you then take loans but never paid them back, looked well dodgy but a lot of folks were/are doing it.
I pay my Tax, as little as possible, but all within the 'normal' rules Stew,
2010 D4 gone but I really loved it
Went back to Merc - C350 AMG
12th May 2014 7:31 pm
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8142
Strange Man wrote:
tcr4x4 wrote:
He has raised millions for charity. For that alone he deserves the OBE.
Charity that wouldn't be required if everyone who was due to pay an amount of tax actually paid it rather than paying someone to find a way to avoid paying the tax they owe.
No need for charity if everyone paid their taxes? Really
IMO, I am sure he was aware of the 'benefits' of said scheme but it was (at that time?) legal. Been investigated, will be paid back (plus a fine = more than if he'd paid the tax? negates original argument surely?).
If it was illegal I'm sure more than "pay it back mate" applies for 66 mill'
Loophole closed but people cleverer than your average HMCR official will find another one and so it goes on; death and taxes; only thing guaranteed in life?
12th May 2014 7:41 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14429
So another witch hunt against someone doing what most of us on here do: Take advice to avoid paying tax. He took advice like we all do and invested like we all do. It wasn't illegal just a badly constructed scheme.
Why is it morally wrong to avoid paying tax on what you have earned? If its not illegal and within the rules then fair enough. The sum of money involved is irrelevant.
I agree with you, as long as everything was legal. I haven't read the details, but surely the 'losses' were not really lost were they? If so then it must be a scam, which would be illegal.
12th May 2014 9:04 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
He's going to have to write another million love songs later 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
12th May 2014 9:27 pm
Garagegmx
Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 916
I agree with you Lid. If the scam was a legal loophole, then Barlow wouldn't have to pay back the money. Therefore the tax avoidance was illegal.
Barlow got his gong for service to Music, if that's what you can call it as well as Charity work, but why shouldn't he loose it? His moral character is suspect isn't it?
Rolf Harris got a CBE for services to Charity. He actively promoted the Princess trust, Epilepsy and Aids Charities. If he gets convicted of the sexual offences he's presently on trial for should his gong be taken from him? Damn sure it should or using your argument, because he'd raised cash for charities, we should let him keep it?
DG - unfortunately Take that are contemplating going on tour to pay their tax bill. where's the nearest knife to slit my wrists.
12th May 2014 9:31 pm
Discoed
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1020
A real credit to society
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12th May 2014 9:40 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
♬♬ Whatever he said ....whatever he did ...♬..he didin't mean it ....He thought he avoided tax for good .♬...Avoided tax...♬....avoided tax...♬.. avoided tax For good. ♬♬21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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12th May 2014 9:56 pm
highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5103
Garagegmx wrote:
I agree with you Lid. If the scam was a legal loophole, then Barlow wouldn't have to pay back the money. Therefore the tax avoidance was illegal.
Tax evasion is illegal, whereas avoidance is not, even when it is unsuccessful.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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12th May 2014 9:58 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23832
It was bad advice.
I don't know much about the Icebreaker scheme, but it's not too dissimilar from the the old Film Partnerships, which were were clamped down upon ages ago. As such it was obvious that the Icebreaker would follow.
The basic principle of such a scheme is sound, but it's open for abuse and that is what has been happening for years.
In defence of Barlow and his colleagues. I'd say that it's highly likely that he knows next to nothing about the UK Tax Regime. This plan had been working with the knowledge of the HMRC for, iirc, about 10 years now. So he wouldn't have needed much convincing.
I think that he was just naive and trusting of the advice that he was given. I very much doubt that he actually understood how it worked or indeed even what is was. It was probably just a case of "sign here please Mr Barlow".
I might be wrong, but I think Icebreaker was a non regulated plan and paid a high level of commission to introducers. It's likely that someone made a lot of money for this dodgy advice.
I've never recommended this type of plan, it's obvious that they're going to be abused and when that happens it's just a question of time before they get closed down. I feel quite smug, that I rejected the Film Partnership plans, especially as I was given a certain amount of stick for doing so.
It staggers me that it's taken so long for a tax judge to clampdown on it. Why? It could have been done years ago. The HMRC was fully aware of it, they had to be as they allowed the tax reliefs, which is exactly how this sort of plan works
It seems that perhaps someone in Government has finally given HMRC a massive boot up the ar*e. About time.
The guilty party here is the Tax Man, for allowing this type of scheme to have existed and worked for such a long time.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
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12th May 2014 10:09 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23832
highlands wrote:
Garagegmx wrote:
I agree with you Lid. If the scam was a legal loophole, then Barlow wouldn't have to pay back the money. Therefore the tax avoidance was illegal.
Tax evasion is illegal, whereas avoidance is not, even when it is unsuccessful.
Correct, no laws have been broken. HMRC have just finally decided, through the necessary legal procedure, that this plan is no longer allowable. As such the tax relief that was claimed will not be allowed and will have to be paid.
I suspect that of the many wealthy individuals who would have used this plan, the press decided that Gary Barlow, OBE and friend of the Tories, would sell more papers than F. Blogs who has a company manufacturing widgets.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
Last edited by LT on 12th May 2014 10:19 pm. Edited 1 time in total
12th May 2014 10:18 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26776
IHTBH, I was offered the chance to join a similar scheme a few years ago. I declined on the basis that it sounded too good to be true, and I firmly believe that there is no such thing as a free lunch!
12th May 2014 10:18 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
LT wrote:
It was bad advice. .....
The guilty party here is the Tax Man,
The guilty party is the man that can invest £26m knowing that the primary intention was to pay less tax back into the system.
Just pay up and hold your head high FFS ...to do anything less is no better than MP's expenses or some in Benefit culture taking advantage "legal" scenarios 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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Wrong thread. 
love songs later 
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