Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
Hi DWDG, thanks for the compliment. That one of yours looks pretty fine too. You are right about the colour, mine is indeed Lugano Teal and polished up and in the sun it really pops. One of the reasons I bought it was the colour; it isn't black or silver!
I see you're in or near Bedford. Ever driven the notorious 40 foot lane at the back of Santa Pod? I've done it a couple of times many years ago; I remember coming out of 40 foot with a couple of friends, motors absolutely covered, passing through Bedford people were staring and pointing. Guess they'd never seen Land Rovers that muddy. We laughed!
Wildboy,keep an eye out on this thread I'll be posting what happens when I do the upper arms. I'm also going to change the brake discs and pads and the epb shoes at the same time.
aja4x4, it is a risk but don't be such a pessimist I'll get to it soon.
Thanks all for the interest so far.
28th Apr 2021 6:41 am
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2463
I may be a pessimist but I'm also and optimist, my new oil pump is still sitting on my toolbox waiting to be fitted.
I'm also a realist, if my engine blows I will rebuild a nice and shiny one to fit back in Andrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
28th Apr 2021 7:37 am
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
Perhaps we should start a sweepstake on whose oil pump goes South first
28th Apr 2021 2:23 pm
DWDG
Member Since: 27 Jul 2020
Location: Bedford
Posts: 101
classic kev wrote:
Hi DWDG, thanks for the compliment. That one of yours looks pretty fine too. You are right about the colour, mine is indeed Lugano Teal and polished up and in the sun it really pops. One of the reasons I bought it was the colour; it isn't black or silver!
I see you're in or near Bedford. Ever driven the notorious 40 foot lane at the back of Santa Pod? I've done it a couple of times many years ago; I remember coming out of 40 foot with a couple of friends, motors absolutely covered, passing through Bedford people were staring and pointing. Guess they'd never seen Land Rovers that muddy. We laughed!
I think I saw and saved your one on eBay a month or so back. Somewhere in London if I recall. Looked interesting but I'm not on the look out for another one just keeping tabs on the colour!
Best advice I have been given recently as I haven't got round to EGR removal AND software update as 2007 model, is to add some Millers EcoMax fuel treatment (Halfords) into every other tankful. I was getting sluggish performance at one stage and that livened things right back up again.
I'm in Bedford and I haven't been to that place by Santa Pod but its now on the list. There are some great roads around here and I'm on the look out for some more.
I'll keep watching the updates on your to remind me what I should do to mine.2007 Discovery 3 HSE Lugano Teal
2011 BMW 520d Touring Sophisticato Grey
2000 Porsche Boxster 2.7 Arena Red
2002 Porsche 911 3.6 C4 Cabriolet Artic Silver - sold last year
1987 Porsche 944S Black - sold last year
2006 Discovery 3 HSE Buckingham Blue - sold last year
2012 Ford Grand CMax Panther Black (wife’s) wish we’d sold that instead!
28th Apr 2021 4:30 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
Well, no peace for the wicked or so they say!
I ordered a pair of top arms, discs and pads all round and new EPB shoes. Big up for Advanced Fcators again. Great service and speedy delivery
So after I finished work today I thought I would make a start. Back on the ramp, jack it up get some axle stands under the chassis. Remove wheels and try to figure out where to start.
I sprayed GT85 on the bolts, wire brushed the brake pipe unions and got the tools out. It's all a bit tight under there, how on earth are you supposed to get sockets on to do up or undo the arms
Well after a bit of harsh language I got stuck in. The hub knuckle joint is easy enough, a long breaker bar and a good heave and the bolts are free so no drama there. ON the right hand side I had a go on the front bolt. There was just enough room for the really big breaker bar and socket. Result! YESSSSS that one starts to turn and it's looking good. Looked at the left hand side, hopefully I'll get the same result but will have to remove the air compressor box first. I'll look at that maybe tomorrow or Friday evening.
Unclipping the brake pipes and abs sensor wire and brake pad wear wire is easy. Undoing the brake pipe unions is another potential headache. I know some just cut the brake pipes and replace with new, and I can fully understand why. Anyway, I wasn't ready for that and was determined to undo the unions. Again space is an issue, it is a battle to get in there to turn a spanner. The unions were very tight and were starting to round off. I had a bit of a think and pulled out my mini gas torch/soldering iron and using the small pencil flame gently heated around the unions. 2 came undone and 2 were a bit more challenging but in the end, the application of heat proved beneficial. All the brake pipe unions will now undo easily so when I am ready that is something I don't need to faff about with.
The rear arm bolts are going to be a pig. If I can get the angry grinder in there it should be easy but space will likely not be sufficient so I have bought a reciprocating saw. Fingers crossed and all that. It is quite amusing when you look in to the battles that come with replacing the rear upper arms, at its most basic it is only 3 bolts! The frustration is that I can see in most cases 2 bolts are eminently doable but the third...... no chance! That top rear bolt is just badly placed. I will try and get them undone but expect to have to cut the arm off then saw the bolts through. I don't intend to spend too lang trying to undo them. If they don't budge within a few minutes I'll be doing surgery!
28th Apr 2021 8:18 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14120
Hiya
Hats off to u mate and know the feeling with those bolts , no chance even getting a torque wrench on there
Must admit I was worried using a blow torch on the brake lines because of brake fluid being flammable , but think it has to be like a fine mist , great there were no dramas
Alas did use a recip saw to cut those bloody bolts , took me forever as didn’t realise there hardened
Wishing u all the best mate and they come undone without too much grief
Handy with the slots in the chassis so can lift the arms up one end
Saw a long reach air zip cutting disc tool a while back and said I would get it if I ever had to replace them again , but fingers crossed the amount of coppaslip I used on the bolts they should fingers crossed come undone
Great update and plse let us know how u get on , plus of course some piccies plse
Then after that ur belong to the upper arm club
28th Apr 2021 9:37 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
I've pretty much done the right hand side arm. There was just no way the rear bolt was coming undone. I had read about undoing the body mounts to get clearance for a socket but I couldn't be doing with the hassle of fiddling about with the body mounts.
Anyway, I hit the arm with the reciprocating saw, to give me a bit more elbow room then I got stuck in to sawing through the bolt, it was a chore. I thought it was taking a long, long time but in reality it wasn't as bad as I thought. Anyway, the captive nut let go with a big crack as the bolt gave up. Great! thinks I, chuck a spanner on the end of the bolt give it a twist and it'll be off... The bolt said F... off! I'm staying right here . A bit more saw action and I suspect the vibration and heat loosened the bolt so it started to turn, a bit of wiggling up and down and it worked its way out of the slot. I used 4 blades on the reciprocating saw, those high tensile bolts take a bit of cutting.
I guess it took me about and hour and a half to remove the old arm and get the new one in place and put the brake lines back on. Now I get to do it all over again on the other side! Hopefully I'll have both rear upper arms and all the brakes done by close of play on Saturday. I'll post some pics later.
29th Apr 2021 2:42 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
Top arms done!
That's one job less, next up.... BRAKES! So tomorrow, the wheels truly come off so I can change the discs and pads all round as well as the parking brake shoes. Once I've done all that I can bleed the brakes, set the EPB and then I'll calibrate the suspension after the top arm change because it's sitting a little high at the back but based on a quick spin up the road, the back end is much better than it was and going round corners is a bit more predictable.
Update and pics to follow!
30th Apr 2021 6:23 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
I don't F....ing believe this!
I just spent ages updating this thread and something went wrong and when I hit submit.... I see the log in. Not happy! Guess I'll have to do it all over again.
2nd May 2021 4:46 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
OK it's another day. I have calmed down after losing a huge post yesterday. It happens but I have no idea what went wrong, maybe my internet connection dropped out part way through or something. Whatever!
First thing, yesterday was a sad day. I sold my Range Rover Classic; I owned it for nearly 16 years. I had so much fun in it but it was time to let it go. It is odd seeing an empty space in the barn where it used to live
I am however happy to report the last couple of days of surgery on the D3 have been successful. The rear top arms have been changed. The brake discs and pads are all new and I have changed the parking brake shoes. It is quite a lot of work but none of it could be described as technically difficult. There are some frustrations in there but I don't think I need to go in to detail as there are already so many threads and videos of what is involved.
However! there are some details that I think are missing so here goes.
I managed to undo the front bolt and the top knuckle bolt and the bolts slid out easily, the rear bolts were not playing the game. I didn't waste my time trying. First tip when looking to do rear upper suspension arm bushes go and buy a reciprocating saw and make sure you buy good quality blades, you will need more blades than you think.
I cut through the arm;
This gives better access to be able to cut through the rusted in place bolt and the remains of the bush. It takes time a patience to cut the bolts, I also suspect you get better results by having the saw on a slow speed. After what feels like ages, the bush can be removed.
As part of getting to the stage where the arm is set to be removed or cut, you will have to take off the brake pipe.
The clips can be rusty so inspect before you start! Also, look at the state of the unions on the pipe. I had a bit of a job getting them undone, the unions started to round off. Corrosion suggested an 11mm spanner was right but after a couple of attempts 11mm was slipping and was too big. I tried 10mm, it was a tight fit and nothing imperial was brilliant either. So after trying different spanners and not really getting anywhere I wasn't sure if I would need to cut the pipes off.
Be mindful it is likely you may need new brake pipe and flexes. I eventually undid the unions by gently heating then up with a gas powered soldering iron flame and then attack with grips and the 10mm spanner. I got away with it, but if I have to go in here again I think new pipes will be a likely requirement.
Anyway,I used a medium pry bar to persuade the pipe clips out and removed the pipes. My next tip here is carefully clean the ends of the brake pipe, they will likely be rusty. I have seen a corroded brake pipe fail, trust me it is not good. I cleaned the pipe carefully, you can see the pitting caused by corrosion but these are actually OK for now.
Once clean, you need to apply some sort of protective coating. Some apply a thick grease but I have had some success previously by using enamel paint - it is hard wearing and easy enough to get hold of, the stuff I used was black enamel I had for touching up the enamel finish on my Rayburn..
The finished pipe
I put the new arm on and was feeling pretty chuffed. I raised the arm to the correct height and applied some torque to the bolts. The front one and the top knuckle bolt are easy enough, there is enough room to get in there with a torque wrench but that top rear bolt is awful. You can't get in there with anything useful unless you fancy releasing body mounts and getting in to more work. I didn't. I used a combination of spanners to try to turn the bolt as far and as hard as I could. I used the doubled up spanner approach, I know it won't have anything like the specified torque on it but it is very tight and as long as it wont come undone, it will be fine.
After all that faffing about, I then went and did the other side. Pretty much the same but was a bit easier and quicker because I had a better idea of what was what after the first one.
Now, it might seem obvious but having used a saw to cut the bolts there will be a pile of swarf and metal filings all over the place including in/on the CV boot that sits directly under the top rear bush. Remember to clean the boot and the rest of the area and remove the swarf because it will act like grinding paste so you can imagine a CV boot might no last long if it is full of tiny bits of metal. I sprayed with brake cleaner and blasted mine with compressed air (please protect your eyes if doing this)
I did the arms and thought I would throw the wheels on and give it a drive up the road. I raised the jacking beam and pulled out the axle stands then lowered the car down. Here's a tip..........
Don't leave your big trade sized can of WD 40 just under the sill when you lower the car! Lost most of the contents of the can and couldn't help but laugh at myself - more speed, less haste! I followed this by another rookie error. You know that new reciprocating saw I bought for this job.... well I left it on the ramp, the cord and plug just hanging off the inside edge. I lowered the ramp....... crunch.....what was that?......ooooppssss! scratch one plug!
Took it for a drive, seemed pretty good but noticed back end was sitting rather high. I can only conclude the new bushes have upset the height sensors. Oh well, I'll do that after I change the brakes.
On Saturday I got stuck in to it. Pulled the fuses for suspension and also the EPB (after setting to mounting position with the IID tool) Crack the rear wheel nuts, jack up the back, axle stands under just in case, pop the wheels off then study the brake caliper and have a general poke about. Looks easy enough and it was! Removing the caliper is very easy, the pads were actually very good and were clearly not very old but the discs were a bit rough. Anyway, did both sides at once. On taking the disc off on the left hand side, a spring clip fell out of the drum but there was no pin The brake shoes were not square and had been held in place with just the one pin and clip.
Just as well I decided to get in to this. I cleaned up the back plates and smeared some copper grease in the appropriate places. Bodsys Brake Bible was a great reference, truly a well considered piece work
While I was about it I decided that I should perhaps remove and clean the EPB cables and make sure the ends of the cable are free. If you have not tried to remove the hand brake cables you might find this helpful. The cables attach to the back plates with what I assume are nylon couplers that have a ribbed part and a 19mm hex. Being nylon, they are quite soft and so when they are seized tight the spanner just slips off. I tried grips on the hex head and on the ribbed section but still couldn't get the things undone. Mmmmmmm.............mmmmmmmmmm............mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa. I came up with a plan
I grabbed my heat gun. I grabbed the now slightly depleted can of WD 40 (becasue I ran out of GT85). I sprayed WD liberally then wiped off the excess and also gently wire brushed the area of action. Heat gun on, I warmed the offending nylon coupling and put the grips on the ribbed section, pulled tight and gently wiggled it back and fore. It moved!....I'm sure it moved......yes.....it's moving, gotcha, ya
Having pulled that off and releasing the cable, I put some white mineral oil on the cable and generally cleaned up the ends.
Then put it back together ready for new EPB shoes. Fairly simple but the return springs can be a bit challenging. Shoes in, new discs mounted now for the calipers and carriers. I cleaned up the carriers and calipers, pushed back the pistons (I use a large G clamp) put on the carriers and new retainers and inserted new pads then mount the calipers. I really like the caliper design and changing the pads is really easy. The rear calipers are straight-forward, bolt access is good, no problems getting in there with the torque wrench. The brake pad wear sensor was damaged on the rear, I did have a new one but what a faff trying to get to the plug. I managed it but also identified one of the rivets that holds the spare wheel shield was broken, so that will be another little fix to do. Got it all bolted up, dropped the rear down and set up for the front.
The front discs are relatively easy to change. BUT access to the top mounting bolt is restricted. The bolts are tight and they are 21mm bi-hex. I have some observations here at this point. After the fun and games at the back with the arms I had pulled out a really old 13/16" open ended spanner - this will mean very little at this point but read on!
I have a range of sockets and spanners. 21mm bi-hex shouldn't be a problem.....yeah, wanna bet! I didn't have a 1/2" drive 21mm bi-hex socket. I have a 3/8" drive one but that won't fit the breaker bar or the torque wrench. This could be tricky.
Breaker bars, these are really useful. Most folk will have one, typically 600mm long. I have one of these. I also have a bigger one! For real power and the ability to snap pretty much any fixing you like, get a 1200mm breaker bar....OH YEAH
Back to it..... I gave the front caliper (right side) a clean up, don't forget on the front it is much easier to turn the steering to improve access. I look at the carrier bolts....mmmmmmm.....not sure about this. I'll try a spanner first and give it a tap with the dead blow hammer.....that's tight! Will have to risk the little 3/8" drive socket on the breaker bar with a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter. Surprisingly, I was able to crack the bolts. Naturally I proceeded to clean up the carrier and the caliper, remove and replace the disc.
Carrier offered up in to position, top bolt wound in finger tight, bottom bolt the same. Now, these bolts are done up tight.... really tight, like 275Nm, that's something like 200ftlbs. The addage tight is tight and too tight's it! comes to mind.
Here's the dilemma. The 21mm spanner will never achieve 275Nm and even if it could, I have no way to measure it. The 3/8" socket might be alright but I don't think the adapter will handle it. No choice but to go for it. I did discover that I could actually just fit the big breaker bar in place with the short socket, adapter and torque gauge. I get in there and pull on the bar, the digital read out climbs quickly, I see over 200Nm the socket and its spindly adapter are holding, just a bit more, come on! you can do it! then just as I see 245Nm there is that disappointing "tick" as the adapter lets go and the steel reaches its yield point........GAME OVER
What to do now
Remember most socket sets don't have a 21mm in them. None of my BI-HEX sets do and to be fair I can't remember really needing a 21mm socket ......... until now. Whilst scratching my head wondering what to do I remembered that old 13/16" spanner. I am sure I saw an odd 13/16", 1/2" drive socket in the drawer - no idea where it came from or why I had it but it was worth a go. I had a rummage and sure enough there it was, 13/16". I try it on the bolt - it fits. The bad news is, my torque wrench stops at 150ftlbs, the torque gauge is too long to get in with this socket so what do you do?
I elected to hit the bottom bolt, get that done up to 275Nm. Trust me using the big bar makes this sort of torque so easy.. just be aware that can be a problem because it is very easy to snap bolts... and NO I didn't break anything I get a feel for the weight of the pull, put the socket on the top bolt and slowly pull down, I feel the bolt tighten just a fraction (bear in mind it was already at 245Nm) and leave it there, discretion is the better part of valour!
Throw the caliper back on, mount wheel then attack the other side.
The nearside front was quite uneventful having had a practice run on the other side first. The only thing that I did note was the absence of a brake pad wear sensor. The wiring appears to be completely missing. It occurs to me that the wiring had been damaged and simply tucked out of the way. I will have to investigate further, I'm sure it can't be that difficult to replace a damaged section of the brake wear loom.
So there we have it, new rear top arms, new EPB shoes, new discs and pads all round. But we're not done just yet. Bleed the brakes then bleed them again just to make sure. Next I plug in the GAP IID to recallibrate the suspension. The front end is pretty good but the back was siting high. Using the guided calibration it is done and dusted in mere minutes.
I took it out to attempt the EPB shoes bedding in procedure. I think I did it right but there is no easy way to tell but anyway, the EPB works very well and there are no screeching noises or warning chimes and error messages so it's looking good.
I took it out for a drive early this morning to give the brakes some gentle cycles and get the pads and discs scrubbed in. To start with the brakes felt a bit weak but as the coating wears off the discs the feel and power improve. I cruised for a few miles at 70mph on the dual carriageway and pull over in a lay-by and check for excess heat at each wheel and look for signs of bluing on the discs. No excess heat, no blue steel, brakes feel great.
JOB DONE.
3rd May 2021 10:31 am
Wildboy
Member Since: 08 Apr 2018
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 8
Good work, I've replaced epb shoes on mine before, every once in a while my epb over reaches and spits its dummy out, cue the screeching noise and lights on the dash. Just back off the adjusters and reset them and all is well for 6 months or so.
Were your brakes binding at all before you did the work?
Pretty sure at least one of mine is
5th May 2021 8:33 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14120
Hi @classic kev
Hats off to u mate awesome work there , know what u mean about those bolts, indeed also done them to FT specs lol
U saying about 21mm I also had to get a socket , think it was for the bottom strut bolt ??
Did u notice a lot of difference after changing the arms, as must admit after doing mine and alignment it was like night and day , even more comfortable plus corners were a lot better
Also want to do my brakes at some stage to the bigger V8 ones seeing I’ve now got some 19’s , did look at some of the slotted drilled discs but sometimes hear of them getting a hairline crack
Thanks again for sharing and bet ur pleased that’s all done
5th May 2021 8:45 am
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
Thanks for the interest.
Wildboy - I wasn't aware of any brake bind before I changed the EPB shoes but for sure the right hand side was a disaster waiting to happen because the shoes weren't properly secured. I'm not sure how the clip could have come off the pin unless the pin had corroded and/or worn through and just snapped then fell out. Happy I've done it though.
gstuart - Yeah 21mm bi-hex sockets, well 1/2" drive ones anyway are not often part of the small socket sets. I have a 21mm impact hex socket but that was no use on the calipers. Yes, I have noticed an improvement in how it drives after doing the arms but I still need to take it somewhere for a 4 wheel alignment. Not sure where is a good place to go locally. Drilled brake discs can crack; I've seen this on motorcycle discs but not so far on a car.
In other news, I fitted a dash cam for a laugh. I am also contemplating removing the front bumper so I can clean the intercooler. I don't know if I will actually remove the intercooler to flush it but who knows! The other thing I have concluded is the red wires I saw tucked up behind the front left wheel arch liner are actually for the pad wear sensor but some helpful person has broken, cut off or otherwise removed the plug so I can't fit the wear sensor! If anybody knows what type of plug I need I'd like to know.
6th May 2021 8:16 am
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
After a fairly uneventful weekend, I have been buying more bits to address minor details.
I posted for help identifying the plug to be able to reinstate the front brake pad wear sensor, the forum came up trumps. Had to search to find a supplier and in the end went to jaguarlandroverclassic.
Found the plug I needed but postage was several times the price of the plug. So, I thought I should see if there were any other small bits I needed. I remembered there was a missing cover/shield, the one that clips to the side of the chassis at the front to hide the bottom of the intercooler. I was surprised the cover was only £14.00 inc VAT!! The actual clips to hold it in place were £9.00 but if you need them, you need them. I also bought 2 new clips for the lower fan shroud, when I removed it for cleaning when I inspected the timing belt and oil pump, one clip was broken and the other is likely to break if I remove it again.
All in I have sourced genuine replacement parts for sensible money and my D3 is improved, although nobody except me will know!
Still contemplating oil pump and EGR replacement............... I also thought about adding some decent spot lights, I like strong illumination in the winter months and after the Rangie with 4 roof mounted spots the Disco's halogen main beam is not quite doing it...................
The credit card is trembling with fear!
9th May 2021 12:56 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 204
A quick lunchtime fettle today. Parts from jaguarlandroverclassic arrived today. Fitted the new shield so all the underbody panels are now present and correct.
While I was outside I thought for laughs I'd pop the EGR pipes off and see how crusty the valves are. One is not too bad (LHS) but the RHS one looked a bit more crusty. Also, there was no gasket on the pipe.
The plug for the front pad wear sensor which is what I started off wanting, was also in the parts I ordered. Sure enough, the receptacle fits the wear sensor plug BUT it has no pins in it!!!!! How the are you supposed to attach the wires? I really get frustrated by things like this, why provide a housing without pins? Just makes no sense to me at all and I have no idea now what I need to be able to put the wires in to the back of the plug.
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I'll get to it soon.
There are some great roads around here and I'm on the look out for some more.
bolts , no chance even getting a torque wrench on there
. A bit more saw action and I suspect the vibration and heat loosened the bolt so it started to turn, a bit of wiggling up and down and it worked its way out of the slot. I used 4 blades on the reciprocating saw, those high tensile bolts take a bit of cutting.
I get a feel for the weight of the pull, put the socket on the top bolt and slowly pull down, I feel the bolt tighten just a fraction (bear in mind it was already at 245Nm) and leave it there, discretion is the better part of valour!
