Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
No Power Engine runs for minute and slowly dies
Hi,
2010 Discovery 4 - SDV6 3.0 Diesel.
Last Friday I was towing a twin axle caravan when we heard a shotgun under the bonnet, restricted performance came up on the dash and we lost power but was still able to tow the caravan off the road to safety about 5 minutes later. At the time I guessed it was a turbo so I didn't feel the need to stop straight away as I'd had a similar situation on a previous SDV6. The engine temperature did shoot up just before we stopped.
Upon inspection and whilst waiting for recovery I discovered that the air box that fits to the front of the throttle body housing had blown off, bent the bracket and was resting on the cooling fan which is probably why it overheated shortly before stopping. I naively thought oh, this will be an easy fix and removed the clip and pushed the air box back on and reseated the clip.
After restarting the car, the idle sounded nice and the engine was cool again. I proceeded to drive on up the road (without caravan attached) and as soon as I hit a small hill the car slowed right down and the restricted performance came on.
After being recovered I had removed the throttle body housing and found quite a lot of coke in the left and right air inlet manifolds but not blocked. I cleaned the throttle body housing completely and carefully removed as much coke as possible from the two manifolds, I also cleaned the end of the MAP sensor.
After putting it all back together it now runs for a minute or so before the engine slows right down and eventually stalls. I has no power and cannot even climb a 75mm kerb into my garage. I've replaced the fuel filter and have checked fuel is coming through on the low pressure side ok. The EGR levers are free and I can move them with my finger.
I've had this engine running without the MAFs connected before so I don't think its those or the MAP sensor. From reading several other threads on this forum I'm siding more on the high pressure injector pump failing, which may have somehow caused the air box to blow off with such force and may also be why others have ended up with cracks in the left / right inlet manifolds.
Codes are
P244A(96) DPF - differential pressure too low
P244B(68) DPF - differential pressure too high
P006A(0) MAF - sensor bank 1 correlation
P0087(00) Fuel rail / system pressure too low
P0088(00) Fuel rail / system pressure too high
P0087(21) Fuel rail / system pressure too low
P062B(00) ECM - fuel injector control - perf problem.
P228C - fuel pressure regulator 1, control limit exceed, pressure too low.
Before I put it on a loader to NWS in Whitchurch, does anymore have any ideas on anything else I can try/check ?
Can the DPF become that blocked it backs up ? Its the fact that it runs and then slowly dies that gets me.
Regards
Simon.
18th Jul 2024 7:43 pm
itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 256
Subscribed as this interests me. Partially related, my boat diesel’s issue was faulty injectors and a manual regulator needing adjustment. (poor air/fuel mixture). As the ECM is involved here, I am surprised to learn that she runs fine with disconnected MAFs.2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
19th Jul 2024 1:50 pm
discosi
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
Hi,
That was several years ago when I was trying to work out which MAF was faulty, the idle was rough but didn't slow down and stall like my current problem.
A friend has said to disconnect the CAT and or DPF and see if it runs without them. Since Covid the cars only been used for short runs and is probably soated badly.
19th Jul 2024 2:07 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
discosi wrote:
Since Covid the cars only been used for short runs and is probably soated badly.
Short journeys are an absolute killer for DPF's in modern diesel's, and that's likely a large part of your problem. Burn it up the motorway (command shift to 5th gear max!!) for 30 or 40 miles and back again, if lucky you might get it clear. If you're going to continue with short journeys you might want to consider a change to petrol, or EV or EV/petrol Hybrid.
itsaguything wrote:
As the ECM is involved here, I am surprised to learn that she runs fine with disconnected MAFs.
PCM has an alternative map specifically for MAF, which is it's default in the event of an air leak or component failure. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
20th Jul 2024 2:50 am
discosi
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
Today I removed the DPF, it is completly blocked, gas tight in fact. Filled it with water and the level didn't drop. With the DPF and rear exhaust removed, the engine now runs and doesn't slow down because of the DPF engine brake !
Apart from short journeys, would anything else cause a large amount of soot that would block the DPF ? I'm just concerned that if I go ahead and replace the DPF or may be clean it out then another fault creating large amounts of soot would take me back to square one.
Now only getting DPF codes (because its missing) in the OBD scanner.
22nd Jul 2024 6:20 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
If you continue to run short journeys it will block up again but you can partially mitigate against this by longer journeys. The engine and exhaust needs to reach full temperature on a very regular basis in order for the DPF to do it's job and burn off the soot.
Otherwise it will clog up again and your DPF sensors may be blocked now too!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
22nd Jul 2024 8:52 pm
itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 256
Thanks for the education! makes perfect sense to me.
Cheers2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
23rd Jul 2024 3:51 am
discosi
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
I have now cleaned the DPF, took a hell of a lot of cleaning as initially water wouldn't pass through.
25% HCL followed by NaOH in solution and then lots of water to neutralise. Lots of muck came out and now the water runs clear and fast.
Oddly, the car now says that the DPF is full on the dash (better late than never) why couldn't it have said this days before the breakdown !!!
So, I run it on the driveway at 3000rpm for 30 mins and I've also taken it on a long run above 3000 rpm most of the way.
The problem now is i can't clear the DPF full code, just keep coming back. The restricted performance warning doesn't show anymore but the car does feel slower when driving. The only codes I'm getting are DPF ones and I've got no air leaks on the manifolds, MAF and MAP sensors are clean and read.
My OBD has in the past has cleared MAF codes, do i need a special OBD tool to clear DPF faults ? Something like the Autel DS808 ? I want to avoid IIDtool as I like tools I can use on other vehicles - the IIDtool unlocked version costs too much to warrant a DIY having one.
27th Jul 2024 8:42 am
discosi
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
Why is this forum is so quiet ? Is everyone on their hols.
OK, so I've had the DPF professionally cleaned and checked with a very small camera - all clear !
I've then used the iCarSoft LR v3.0 to tell the car its got a new DPF and then did a regen.
I'm not getting any codes now, should I be looking for / checking anything else ? Seals have been swap on the throttle control body and I don't think I've got any air leaks, MAFs have been cleaned and MAP is working.
I've lost trust in the car and don't want it to let me down again - you'll probably say buy something else.
For those who don't know, you have to use a OBD tool such as IIDtool or iCarSoft to reset the DPF after its been cleaned, until then the car will be in a bad mood.
30th Jul 2024 5:27 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14388
Yep, we’re kicking back on our hols.
Click image to enlarge
As for the DPF, Gap IID is your friend as are longer journeys. If you’re doing short trips where the DPF doesn’t get hot, then this isn’t the car for you.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
30th Jul 2024 11:51 pm
discosi
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
Happy Hols !!
I don't think its the "short" journeys, we live in the sticks so no where is short, the school run is still 20 mins each way, plus nothing else is as comfortable and strong enough to tow trailer with big digger on the back. I've been looking at other cars for year and keep coming back to the Disco.
Back to my issue, i reckon the turbo on the drivers side as knacked, wife now tells me that when she booted it a few weeks before it went pop she got no boost and restricted performance come up.
There is also soot around that turbo and it does sound a tad gruntyer.
Remember DPF light didn't come on until atfer i'd removed it and had it cleaned.
Gonna take it to a LR specialist (NWS in Whitchurch) and will feed back to the forum as I know its useful.
S.
31st Jul 2024 7:58 am
Browny90
Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 698
Hello mate..
It sounds like you may have a split in one of your intake manifolds.. That would explain the restricted performance when it was booted, and the excessive build up of crap in the DPF..
Sorry in advance for the long story!
In Jan this year I had a similar issue, driving back from Paris 10 miles into the journey I got restricted performance, Ive got a GAP IID so check for codes, none, until you look under the codes that dont show until you change the settings.. (I had this also on my pervious D4..)
Anyway, I pulled over and found the split, right around the bolt hole on the top of the LH manifold..
I got back to Folkstone and went to Halfords to see if I could find anything to help, I got some epoxy and attempted to seal it up, Unfortunately I don't think I left it long enough and within a few miles the warning was back..
I decided to feather the throttle on the motorway so that the light didn't come on and restrict me, I took it steady all the way up..
When I got to Northampton the DPF light came on.. I figured this would probably be ok.... . I got just outside Derby and it said DPF full.. I nursed it home, but by then it was running not very happily....
I replaced the manifold the next day and took it for a spin to clear out the DPF.. unfortunately it had no power and I ended up being recovered home..
I took off the DPF and tried to run, but had a rough idle.. I happened to look inside the oil filler cap... and alas, the RH camshaft wasn't turning!!
I had the chain recovered and the head replaced at Oval Autos, all was fine after that (apart from a few small issues with OA)
The issue was the cam chain tensioner had broken, I believe by the back pressure caused by the full DPF.. but the guy at OA reckons I was just unlucky..
Please either have a look around your intake manifolds for any wet patches or splits, of If you have an IId, check the manifold pressures and record the results after some heavy hill work..
Member Since: 14 Nov 2013
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 17
Got the D4 back from NWS with a no fault found. Whilst waiting for the disco to be looked at I found a post on the Austrialian landrover owners forum (AULRO) where several others had had the air duct blow off, seems like it does that.
So like one of them I've added another support using a stainless steel cable tie to keep the box on. DPF must have plugged due to the air duct being slightly off for a while, or just me driving for another 2 miles with it right off the throttle body. Manifolds aren't cracked, no signs off oil around injectors, no codes. working.
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