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DiscoJools
Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 132
  
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My wife put a full tank of biodeisel in the D3 last Mon at a Liberty garage on Moorooduc Rd Baxter not knowing it was biodiesel and the possible implications. It has to be said that had the words "biodiesel" in very small letters on the price sign. Anyway rang dealer and they said it was not a good thing. Car has been fine since then until I started the car this morning and noticed lumpy idle. Rang ULR and they said that it had almost certainly caused damage to the fuel pump and that there would be metal filings all through the system. Apparently this has not been an uncommon thing. Car now gone to ULR where they will have to pull apart the fuel system. Luckily after having a heart attack when they quoted the cost (up to $13000!!!) I found that it was covered by my insurance.
Just to check I rang Lance Dixon who after talking to LR Aus confirmed that there maybe damage. They suggested flushing out the whole system including the tank (no drain plug on it!) and that may solve the problem. As we are due to go on 3 week road trip on Thursday I decided that it was not worth taking the chance of a breakdown and as insurance covers the cost i would get the whole thing done.
Oh well it looks like that we will be going in Sport TDV8 now. Oh bother!!
PS Another friend of mine with a TDV6 D3 also filled up at the same garage on the same day with $300 worth of the same diesel( he has long range tank) but has only done a few k since then and thinks he maybe OK. he said that he hadn't realised that it was biodiesel until he looked at the receipt a couple of days later.
Anybody had a similar situation? 2.7 D4 eDiff, Traxide Dual battery, Safari Snorkel...Opposite Lock winch bar..extra set 17" wheels with 245/70/17 BFG KM2 MTs..Warrior winch..Long range tank.
1982 2dr RRC renovated.
1983 Range Rover 2dr fitted with 300Tdi (with bigger turbo), 40mm body lift, Warn 9000i winch and BFG MT 265/75/16. Rear Maxidrive locker
1976 Landcruiser BJ40 with tipper body for the farm!!
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 1st Sep 2008 7:49 am |
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DiscoAtom
Member Since: 28 Sep 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 142
 
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With my previous truck, a 99 Prado, I ran it with a biodiesel blend a number of times and noticed no difference other than the exhaust odour. I don't know if you had in your tank 100% biodiesel or a blend, most likely a blend but I read somewhere that if you were not running biodiesel consistently other than the occasional one, the engine would be okay. Engines certified to run biodiesels have seals that do not degrade with biodiesel. '06 Disco 3 TDV6 SE Buckingham Blue
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| 1st Sep 2008 9:07 pm |
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DiscoJools
Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 132
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Hi DiscoAtom,
It says in the manual that the D3 is not to be run on biofuel. The fuel put in was 20% bio. However I noticed that my TDV8 Sport can run on 5% Biodiesel. Anyway couldn't take the chance before a long trip and the D3 is at ULR waiting to be checked paid for by insurance.
By the way a mate is just taking delivery of new diesel Hilux(basicly same engine as your Prado) and I'm sure he said that biodiesel is not recommended for that either.
Discojools 2.7 D4 eDiff, Traxide Dual battery, Safari Snorkel...Opposite Lock winch bar..extra set 17" wheels with 245/70/17 BFG KM2 MTs..Warrior winch..Long range tank.
1982 2dr RRC renovated.
1983 Range Rover 2dr fitted with 300Tdi (with bigger turbo), 40mm body lift, Warn 9000i winch and BFG MT 265/75/16. Rear Maxidrive locker
1976 Landcruiser BJ40 with tipper body for the farm!!
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| 1st Sep 2008 9:21 pm |
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TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
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Hi Julian,
I filled with the bio-blend at that same servo about 2 weeks ago 
I was a bit concerned but have not had any problems and the car is running fine to date.
Regards Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
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| 2nd Sep 2008 2:00 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Pure bio diesel does not have much lubrication in it. So with the high pressure pumps on the D3 it could cause damage. I would not think one tank would cause much but if the tank was empty you are probably running pure bio diesel.
If you do not intend claiming damage on insurance it may not be such a good idea telling the dealer as if you have problems with the fuel sysyem/injectors later they will blame you. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
Last edited by caverD3 on 2nd Sep 2008 6:37 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 2nd Sep 2008 2:45 am |
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TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
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IIRC I went to the servo in question only becasue i was about to run out of fuel (SWMBO had the car for the week  )
I have only used 1/2 the tank - perhaps I should fill it up again so as to dilute the bio-fuel? Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
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| 2nd Sep 2008 3:45 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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TDMP wrote:I have only used 1/2 the tank - perhaps I should fill it up again so as to dilute the bio-fuel?
Or add a little 2 stroke oil?  “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 2nd Sep 2008 4:27 am |
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DiscoJools
Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 132
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caverD3, Tristan.
Fuel I filled the car with was 20% bio. i find it hard to believe that it could cause damage, but ULR and LRA say that there is a chance there might be. Ins assessor is seeing the car on Wed so will see what happens.
Maybe there is a bit of overeaction, who knows....
Jools. 2.7 D4 eDiff, Traxide Dual battery, Safari Snorkel...Opposite Lock winch bar..extra set 17" wheels with 245/70/17 BFG KM2 MTs..Warrior winch..Long range tank.
1982 2dr RRC renovated.
1983 Range Rover 2dr fitted with 300Tdi (with bigger turbo), 40mm body lift, Warn 9000i winch and BFG MT 265/75/16. Rear Maxidrive locker
1976 Landcruiser BJ40 with tipper body for the farm!!
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| 2nd Sep 2008 4:47 am |
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DiscoJools
Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 132
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Lakes,
Car is out of warranty anyway!
Discojools 2.7 D4 eDiff, Traxide Dual battery, Safari Snorkel...Opposite Lock winch bar..extra set 17" wheels with 245/70/17 BFG KM2 MTs..Warrior winch..Long range tank.
1982 2dr RRC renovated.
1983 Range Rover 2dr fitted with 300Tdi (with bigger turbo), 40mm body lift, Warn 9000i winch and BFG MT 265/75/16. Rear Maxidrive locker
1976 Landcruiser BJ40 with tipper body for the farm!!
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| 2nd Sep 2008 1:20 pm |
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TDMP
Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511
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caverD3 wrote:TDMP wrote:I have only used 1/2 the tank - perhaps I should fill it up again so as to dilute the bio-fuel?
Or add a little 2 stroke oil?
 good idea...to be safe I'll do both Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)
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| 2nd Sep 2008 10:06 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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I understand it is the lubrication of the the high pressure pump that was the problem, not the engine. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 3rd Sep 2008 11:42 pm |
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IKke
Member Since: 29 Apr 2008
Location: Brabant
Posts: 327
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Quote:Biodiesel Improves Lubricity
By 2006, all U.S. highway diesel will contain less than 15 ppm sulfur—ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD). Currently highway diesel contains 500 ppm sulfur (or less). Biodiesel typically contains less than 15 parts per million (ppm) sulfur (sometimes as low as zero). Some biodiesel produced today may exceed 15 ppm sulfur, and those producers will be required to reduce those levels by 2006 if the biodiesel is sold into on-road markets.
In the on-road market, low-level blends of biodiesel such as 1% or 2% can improve lubricity of diesel fuels and this may be particularly important for ULSD as these fuels can have poor lubricating properties. Engine manufacturers depend on lubricity to keep moving parts, especially fuel pumps, from wearing prematurely. Even 2% biodiesel can restore adequate lubricity to dry fuels such as kerosene or Fischer-Tropsch diesel.
This is what Biodiesel handling and use guidlines from the U.S. Department of energy says.
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| 4th Sep 2008 6:30 am |
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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
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Then WTF are the manufactures going on about BIO. D. Seems then Hp pumps etc would be better off with Bio, Modern seals should be nitrile rubber so they should be ok.
So I just dont get it, Is there something we are missing or is there a hidden adgender here
Cheers
Rob MY05 TDV6 SE, dirt colour, Now cremated !!!!!!!
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| 4th Sep 2008 8:24 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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ENGINE OPERATION PROBLEMS
Todays engines are designed to operate with petroleum fuel. Neat biodiesel and higher percentage biodiesel blends can cause a variety of engine performance problems including:
Fuel filter plugging,
Injector coking (carbon deposits),
Piston ring sticking and breaking,
Elastomer seal swelling and hardening/cracking, and
Severe engine lubricant degradation.
Studies found injectors and pumps failing at around 50,000 miles with neat biodiesel. There is little information on the use of biodiesel with engine durability over the mileage and operating conditions of heavy-duty diesel engines.
http://searchwarp.com/swa291057.htm
Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine with few to no modifications. The main effect is super-lubrication which has the benefit of acting like a solvent to clean the engine. If the engine has been previously running on conventional diesel this can result in an initial need to change fuel filters until sludge left by petroleum fuel is purged. This effect is more pronounced when using B100 (100% biodiesel), and may be less so with B20. Precautionary measures should be taken however, by checking the fuel filter after initial hours of running blended or neat fuel (100% biodiesel).
When using B100 exclusively, the lubrication could degrade certain types of rubber over time, which may require replacement of fuel hoses or fuel pump seals. This isn't as much of a concern with newer engines that contain parts designed for low-sulphur diesel (known as #2 diesel), as these parts are also compatible with biodiesel. The use of B20 did not result in the need to replace hoses or seals in the many miles of tests previously mentioned.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-biodiesel-fuel.htm
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/bio-fuels/59322-...ation.html “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 4th Sep 2008 9:17 am |
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