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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
  
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Ent. I looked further than the BBS website and did some research. What I found out I didn't like. I personally don't like the attitude of the company. But thats my opinion. Others have theirs and are 'allowed' to state it. I am just exercising the free speech this forum always had, and stating mine.
And BTW, there are cases of bricked D3's using this tool. Again research digs up all sorts of interesting info 
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 1st Nov 2009 3:25 pm |
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Ent
Member Since: 12 Oct 2007
Location: In the cack
Posts: 6485
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Simon
you are more than entitled to an opinion as long as it's based on hard facts and not a onesided skewed view. In regards to not liking the companies attitude well that's laughable! I'll think you find Colin to be more than helpfull if you needed any help or pointers day or night, not bad when you get a reply from the company owner. I'm sure there have been issues with users locking their cars out, but these isolated incidents have been down to user error ie RTFM first. If you accidently formatted your hard drive would you jump on the phone to give Bill Gates grief? User error doesn't constitute a bad piece of kit and I think by the amount of well informed forum members that have felt the benefit of the faultmate surely tells it's own story. I hope this thread doesn't get locked as I'm sure over the course of the next week members will give their own independent testimonials. Maybe Baben can give his summary about the Faultmate as I believe him to be a a unique situation as being the owner/user of Autologic and BBS kit. Simon I have no wish whatsoever in falling out over who as the best bit of kit, as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating and so for I'm up for seconds. Club Exped trailer
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Club 300bhp
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| 1st Nov 2009 3:47 pm |
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SJR
Member Since: 09 Aug 2006
Location: East Manchester
Posts: 4030
  
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simon wrote:
And BTW, there are cases of bricked D3's using this tool
Maybe if you posted some of this evidence on here we could all make our own judgements as to whether it is an RTFM issue (as Ent states) or an actual hardware/software issue with the faultmate, it would also give Colin the opportunity to answer/explain the issues around any complaints that might be out there. It would certainly be more beneficial than the current sniping and counter sniping, not that you are not entitled to do so, it would just be less tedious  I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
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| 1st Nov 2009 3:52 pm |
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Ent
Member Since: 12 Oct 2007
Location: In the cack
Posts: 6485
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Ref locking car out
One incident springs to mind were a user entered into the CCF and changed the cars Vin number, why he did this I will never know, and then saved the changes. Having done this the Faultmate didn't wouldn't communicate with the car as it was seen to be a different vehicle, he had only bought the single car version. I see this as being user error. All users should save the current CCF before changing any values, this will give a restore point in the event anything should go wrong. BTW this situation was rectified by Colin. Club Exped trailer
Club Timed Climate
Club Flappy paddle steering wheel
Club 300bhp
Club Prospeed test pilot/lab rat
Club National Luna Stella conditioner
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| 1st Nov 2009 4:02 pm |
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XX03
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: London
Posts: 474
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And apart from changing the VIN.....He accidently put the wrong one in anyway.
As for putting the whole subject on here, Colin would not allow it as that is why only users of his equipment can access his technical forum.
The user contacted BBS with his problem and they tried their best to rectify the problem very promptly...even though if was not BBS that made the mistake in the first place....and guess what there was no sniping over it.
As already said the full details are not and probably never will be available on this forum.
Maybe Ent is right with a poll.
I've got one........Am I happy with it -YES......Have I had good support from the BBS team -YES
Can't Thank Colin, Ronnie and Gabi for their prompt help when needed. Formerly Blakey
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| 1st Nov 2009 4:44 pm |
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RPG
Member Since: 23 Feb 2009
Location: The End of the Earth (West Cornwall)
Posts: 712
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For the 10forCash / Inde / Stealer camp:
I'll use you because I value your experience over mine, because I want quality and piece of mind and because I don't have all the right kit and facilities.
For the BBS SPY/ 3rd party add-ons camp:
I'll use you because Landrover don't make or do half the stuff I want on my car and that they do make they charge way over the odds for.
BMW can fit iDrive in their car's. Many of the features in iDrive have parallels in MSV, just with a fancier front-end. Why don't Landrover offer such a system for their range?
Let's be honest, here: the argument is not about "would you DIY or use an indi / dealer". Those that can will always DIY. Nor is it an argument about "LR / Autologic v Faultmate" etc... Autologic release software updates that provide additional functionality to their own systems. By so doing they admit themselves that their own systems are not the be-all-and-end-all. Same with all the other platforms out there. Some of these boxes have functionality that can produce 2.5ton paperweights. More fool the person who uses them in that way, but to be honest I can buy a £20 microwave from Tesco, a £50 bag of fertiliser from my local agri store and turn my D3 into one almight big bomb! I don't plan to do this. Just yet.
I know the issues Iain and Simon and others have with the Faultmate in particular and I largely agree with their point, but despite it's name (and as far as I know) Blackbox do not make systems to fit in aircraft, which have much, much more stringent safety pre-requsites (like automatically taking a backup, first, and never letting an operator initiate a function that can result in a system failure) Perhaps if they did, Faultmate would not have these issues...and would cost 10 times as much. The fact that there seems to be no legal requirement for such safety features is surely a failing of Government? I'm sure eventually this will change. Governments like legislating! But you need a test case. Perhaps Blackbox will be it?
I think the point is this: Some of us are happy to accept the status quo where big industry believes it is acceptable to continually release minor upgrades and enhancements to their product ranges, maybe a fancy new name and brand image, but without making any major advancement. Look at Microsoft - one of the biggest companies in the world and they have made and entire industry that depends upon it! Some of us, though, are not happy with that. Some of us support a little revolution rather then the bland old evolution every now and then. I mean, if this board had designed the replacement to the Discovery 3 would we have come up with the Discovery 4? I think not!
Besides, if Landrover didn't want their electronics hacked then they could have done something about it. They didn't. They didn't because people have always adapted their vehicles (It's all part of the Landrover experience! ) and the addition of computers just gives one more thing to adapt. Sure, there may be issues with the implimentation of some of these aftermarket products and I have made my concerns about these issues known a fair while back But lets put that into persepective: If the UK Government REALLY wanted to reduce road deaths or vehicle emissions then they could have introduced much more stringent, radical laws long ago to facitilate this. They haven't. They haven't because they know that isn't the way the modern world works. Industry does not want to have to invest in the R&D to produce big, bold leaps in technology because...well...it doesn't have too! Why should a company like Microsoft go from Windows 95 straight to Windows 7 when it can release 4 other products along the way and earn many times as much money for little extra work along the way? The majority of consumers are happy to play this game. The majority of industries love to play this game. But if it wasnt for a little revolution every now and again we wouldnt have telephones, the Internet, the World Wide Web, the petrol or diesel engine, computers... These things were not developed by big corporations. They were developed by small-time pioneers. The corporations then adopted the technology when they realised what they had been missing.
There are plenty of cars out there full of electrickery that you can reset the service indicator without such a tool. Bentleys and BMWs for starters. Why do I need to buy a box of tricks from Blackbox to do stuff like this? Why isn't it built in? Why can't I turn off DSC? Blackbox are responding to a gap in the market. A gap Landrover made. Look at it another way: You paid tens of thousands of pounds for a car that is only half finished. Happy? If it takes a company like Blackbox to stir the mix a little, howsoever they do it, then maybe that is a good thing? What that has to do with Autologic v Faultmate, Dealer & Indi v DIY, I have not got a clue!? Do you argue like this about the engine upgrades, suspension upgrades, roll cages, protection plates etc on your Series 1, Series 2, Series 3, 200Tdi, 300Tdi, blah, blah? No. So what's the difference? Do you think I can't turn a Series 1 into a paperweight? Try me!
That said, my car goes to main dealers or indi's with Autologic when I want services and some other stuff done. Their experience outweighs mine. I'll pay for that. Not because I can't service my own vehicle but because in so doing they might spot something I would not. I don't have a Faultmate. I'd like one...there are a few things I like control over (like turning the key-in-ignition beep off which my local dealer and indi both refuse to do "for insurance reasons"). If I had one I'd still use the dealer or indi. Their experience still outweighs mine.
Yes: I want my cake AND I want to eat it! And I like a little revolution now and again.
Last edited by RPG on 1st Nov 2009 4:58 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Nov 2009 4:49 pm |
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catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
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just to remain factual, no sides taken.
Ent wrote:One incident springs to mind were a user entered into the CCF and changed the cars Vin number,
the faultmate doesnt have the ability to do this even Colin states this . what happened is unclear and not been explained.
Ent wrote:BTW this situation was rectified by Colin.
who rectified the situation is unclear as the patch allowed the msv2 to work again. what that meant exactly is a mystery to me, who reset the vin to its original state is unclear
can we ALL stick to just facts.
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| 1st Nov 2009 4:50 pm |
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catweasel
Member Since: 05 May 2006
Location: Bundaleer
Posts: 4805
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XX03 wrote:As already said the full details are not and probably never will be available on this forum.
nor are they on the BBS forum.
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| 1st Nov 2009 4:53 pm |
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DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
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matt_tdv6 wrote:So i guess upgrading my computer with windows 7 is a "SOFTWARE HACK" then as it wasnt a factory fit option
No it isn't, but if you paid for Windows 7 Home edition and upgraded the features to Ultimate it would be.
Tuning is different as LR don't offer that option. They do offer (and charge) for the upgrades this gives (like offroad satnav. Disco 5 HSE Lux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peyiqaJrmMU
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| 1st Nov 2009 5:14 pm |
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Ent
Member Since: 12 Oct 2007
Location: In the cack
Posts: 6485
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CW
Yes your right lets stick to the facts, I'm still waiting for the other half of this debate to respond with numerous horror stories that are actual facts and not just ramblings through blind alligence. At the end of the day if the BBS kit was as bad as it's made out to be it would die a death, but the fact is the positive feedback from actual users seems to suggest that it is an absolute success that offers a great alternative that other tools available on the market. Mods can we put a post up with a poll on this subject as mentioned in an earlier post, hopefully this will put an end to petty sniping and it will pave the way to some constructive criticism. Club Exped trailer
Club Timed Climate
Club Flappy paddle steering wheel
Club 300bhp
Club Prospeed test pilot/lab rat
Club National Luna Stella conditioner
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| 1st Nov 2009 5:27 pm |
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matt_tdv6
Member Since: 05 Feb 2009
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 937
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Simon,
Have you used either of the systems in question?
Where do you get your facts about Autologic & the Faultmate MSV2 is it your own experience with them or is it what you have been told?
I think if you actually owned a Faultmate and used it you would have a different opinion
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| 1st Nov 2009 5:27 pm |
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XX03
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: London
Posts: 474
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catweasel wrote:nor are they on the BBS forum.
Aren't they........I found them, infact I remember reading them when it all happened. Formerly Blakey
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| 1st Nov 2009 5:30 pm |
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BrumLee
Member Since: 07 Mar 2008
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1360
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I bought a MSV2 a week ago and I'm very happy with it (understatement, dead chuffed 8) )
Wiggs plugged his MSV2 in whilst I was at Peterborough and apart from intermittent EGR faults there was a very worrying turbo boost pressure fault code present. Now if Wiggs was an independent and I was not mechanically minded, there would have been a tidy packet to be made with a new turbo fit (or clear the fault code ). Wiggs cleared the code in September and I checked this week and it was still clear. So as far as I'm concerned my MSV2 has partly paid for itself. I've also adjusted my service indicator as I'm qualified enough to service my own vehicle if I'm qualified enough to service vehicles running at 40ton with more equipment fitted like 'lane assist' and 'electronic braking' 
I'm not a dummy when it comes to diagnostic equipment as I've used SDP3 (Scania), E-check (Cummins), DAVIE (DAF), Sun (now Snap-on) and now STAR (Mercedes-Benz). The MSV2 is quicker in both software navigation and hardware communication than all other bits of kit I've used, and far more comprehensive.
I've also found Colin to be helpful and honest. Looking at the BBS forum I can see that Ron, Gabi and the rest of the BBS team will push the boat out to be helpful no matter how big or trivial someone's request is.
BBS MSV2 is my preferred choice of an affordable vehicle stand-alone/server diagnostics
BTW Does Autologic offer both stand-alone and sever capabilities
Last edited by BrumLee on 1st Nov 2009 6:07 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Nov 2009 6:01 pm |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
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Brumlee, what laptop are you using ? - Are you using the serial or USB port ??
mines not arrived yet and I still have to sort out a laptop with / without a serial port. On having a look a methley's today there are a few problem with the PC s/w and some niggles but nothing is perfect.
I have a few problems now and again with my D3 and that cost a hell of a lot more !!
Once the Faultmate arrives and i can sort out the USB/SERIAL issue I will be able to give my factual opinion Duncan
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Last edited by DiscoDunc on 1st Nov 2009 6:16 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Nov 2009 6:05 pm |
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BrumLee
Member Since: 07 Mar 2008
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1360
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Dunc,
I'm using a Compaq Presario (HP) laptop daul core, Windows 7 and serial to usb adaptor. You must make sure you use the correct serial to usb driver. Install VE and run VE using Windows XP SP2 compatability 
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| 1st Nov 2009 6:10 pm |
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