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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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LR will deny it as the Eastnor instructors did at the gamefair  They apparently use the suspension more than anyone else but have not had a single issue.
I think the issue is serious, my compressor failed having only been home with the caravan a few hours, it would have been a nightmare and very dangerous if the thing had gone at 60mph on the motorway with 1600kg of caravan on the back.
BN you have my support mate, if you need any info let me know  DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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 1st Aug 2005 2:06 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Raising issues with LR is not easy, but I have to agree with winger that there are difficulties and I believe he is of the legal profession. Therefore I take his point very seriously, but if people do not make a stand on serious issues, then we would not get anything done. This is a serious issue, even though it has not (yet) effected my vehicle.
What we are doing on DISCO3 is sorting out problems and highlighting some that as individuals we would possibly never hear about.
Often in the media, people go to the TV and about half a dozen people make a 5 minute item to get a result in 'their case'. I would like to do this more discreetly and get a result in all cases. Not only that we do not devalue a brilliant vehicle.
On that point I have spoken to LR just now about my theory and the ignition with slow boot up. They have taken the details very seriously indeed, which is pleasing. My main point was that if I was off road and I suffered a failed hill ascent. LRE explain exactly how to carry out the procedure, but it may cause the system to fail to boot up in a panic situation which would make the situation even worse with parts of the car not working.
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| 1st Aug 2005 2:51 pm |
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scorpio
Member Since: 26 Feb 2005
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 237
 
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What we need to do is take a step back and have a look very closely at what we are saying. I agree to those who have had the problem it is a very serious issue BUT they are in the minority and as such LR will not take action unless it becomes a more common occurence. AS BN has said we are 250 strong on this forum now equate that to how many D3 or LR3 have been sold and we have just become a minnow in a large pool. We need to be careful we dont use the forum "might" the wrong way and if we ever do need it we are taken as "the boy who cried wolf"
Last edited by scorpio on 1st Aug 2005 3:23 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Aug 2005 3:17 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
 
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Presumably Land Rover won't tell you who makes the "new compressor" for the Discovery?
I am sceptical about the one that is causing the problems being made by Delphi. Delphi make the air spring units, but there are all manner of other makers involved in the air side of the suspension system - the air tank, for example. Land Rover already have already changed the compressor once, and to get a new manufacturer to design and tool up to make a replacement is going to take a while....and not just a few weeks, as all the other parts in the suspension "matrix" have to work with it.
I thought that the compressor pump (which is only part of the compressor unit) was made by Rietschle.
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| 1st Aug 2005 3:20 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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...and my point about the outcome of any survey being "interesting" is exactly the point you make Scorpio.
If it's happened to you, then it is bloody madenning; if it hasn't, you wonder what the fuss is about.
I think a survey would show up many less problems than people might expect.
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| 1st Aug 2005 3:35 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Winger wrote:...and my point about the outcome of any survey being "interesting" is exactly the point you make Scorpio.
If it's happened to you, then it is bloody madenning; if it hasn't, you wonder what the fuss is about.
I think a survey would show up many less problems than people might expect.
What we are all saying is correct and also that we are few in numbers and even less in problems. 250 members with possibly 50 members with problems is a small problem globally. However if anyone suffered injury or death as a result, it is not an unknown issue and one that has caused a debate on the concerns of owners. Maybe that is the angle of approach to take should anyone need it.
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| 1st Aug 2005 3:56 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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I'm on a roll now........ , but I am going out tonight and wanted to get this off my chest. 
Even though there are only 250'ish registered members of the forum, there are probably a lot of others out there now quaking in their boots at the prospect of a D3 with a failed compressor lurching across the M5 at them: 2.7 tonnes of Solihull's finest headed your way, apparently out of control, would not be comforting.
I don't believe that the suspension lowering itself to access height when you are bowling along has anything to do with the compressor failing, directly. Once the system is up, there is a receiver tank that maintains the supply of air to the system - the compressor doesn't operate unless the pressure in this tank (not made by Delphi) drops below a certain level. If it does, and the compressor has failed, the suspension will lower, but not immediately and not before the suspension sensors (also not made by Delphi) begin to provide warnings that there is a problem.
If all the air were to suddenly rush out of the system, then the car would lower, but that is probably most unlikely and there are probably valves on the suspension units (made by Delphi) that regulate the flow of air into and out of those units. So, one might deflate, whilst the other three remain inflated. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this happened to someone and the car behaved very well under the circumstances, and was brought to a safely controlled stop.
The suspension lowering itself at speed is much more likely to be an electronic gremlin; the failure of the compressor unit (maybe or maybe not made by Delphi) will result in the failure of the car to reach the appropriate suspension height, but this is most likely to occur when you start up, not when you are speeding along at 80mph.
So, I reckon these are two seperate problems, linked only by "air" as a common theme.
As far as recalls go, the UK has the leading consumer automotive recall system in the world. The US and Japanese systems are modelled on ours. The law allows that if a manufacturer does not make a safety recall considered necessary, VOSA, the Vehicle & Operator Safety Agency, can force a recall and fine the manufacturer. If the owner of a vehicle is not getting any joy with the dealer/manufacturer, then their recourse in the first instance would be to Trading Standards, now hold a deal of power in this area, or to VOSA directly. In taking a case to them, you'd have to demonstrate a clear number of identical problems for them not to suggest that this was a vehicle specific problem.
Land Rover has already changed the compressor part for the D3 once earlier in the year. Parts are improved all the time, especially where there is an above average, or unacceptable level of failure, and I suspect that it what is happening now. I am quite sure that compressors can be made faster than D3s, and in greater volumes. The supplies will catch up, other compressors will fail, but instead of stories of cannibalising other vehicles/the production line to get the parts, they will be sitting on the dealers shelves.
It is a serious problem, but only if it happens to you. Further, I am far from convinced of the extent of the problem.
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| 1st Aug 2005 4:20 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Winger, very comprehensive analysis of what is possibly correct. However there is clearly an issue even if one person has a problem whether it be mechanical or electronic. What we need then is a format on the site so that anyone reporting a defect can enter the full circumstances leading to the problem.
In the case of D barnes who is on holiday abroad with his wife, family and caravan his suspension failure could have been dreadful. We need to know what his actions were leading up to the failure. From these reports we can be much more positive.
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| 1st Aug 2005 4:36 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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Is the caravan the common denominator  DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 1st Aug 2005 4:40 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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We have the Issues section. No reason why a forum member cannot file under the relevant issue the exact nature of the problem, when it happened and, as you rightly point out, what was happening immediately prior to the fault developing.
That will help deal with the gremlin issues, but not where something physically breaks.
What we do know now is that the compressor fitted to some vehicles appear to be failing very early in their life. What we don't know is if this is a general problem, or relates to a discreet VIN group as a result of a dodgy batch of compressors being delivered to Land Rover by their supplier. Interesting to know the VINs of those people who have had compressor failures and see if there is any correlation.
That's it, I'm off out for a pint, some bbq  &  (hopefully no one will slip any  or  onto the grill) and I won't run over any  on my way home in my  .....
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| 1st Aug 2005 4:46 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Now theres imagination, used to do that at school. Started with the Egyptians I think, called hieroglyphics.
Mr Web master, how about getting together on Sunday to sort out a form that could be filled in on the Issues section for any of these defects, so we could analyse the problem before it ocurred and until. Or is that becoming too techincal. Would be for me anyway.
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| 1st Aug 2005 5:08 pm |
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MVS
Member Since: 18 Jul 2005
Location: People's Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 419
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Would be very interested to be included in any survey/ action taken to LR.
As u guys may be aware my compressor went on a 40m homeward trip, and managed to stay up!! after the dash warning.
It however wouldn't raise the following morning. So is the pressure dumped , or did it leak.
Luckily I wasn't towing but I regularly tow a 2.5 tonne Ifor Will 2x axle trailer, full of sand/cement etc.
I still don't have my D3 back after 2.5 weeks.
The compressor is swapped.
I believe the PDC unit has been changed, and soft updated.
My squeeky handbrake has turned into new disks being fitted due to corrosion (after 4 months 4500 miles??!  ).
Do u think I've got a lemon, should I reject now, or as they are repairing diligently have I got a case
Mike
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| 1st Aug 2005 7:24 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Mike, from what you say, I think you may have a rejection case, especially after 2.5 weeks without the car and that you rely on it for your existance and with no future date for its return.
The rust is an interesting one for a 4x4, was it the parking brake drums or the disc's?
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| 1st Aug 2005 7:55 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
 
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What about an 'open letter' to LRCS, asking for clarification?
I for one, - as a pending owner would add my name to it...
Cheers,
 10forcash
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| 1st Aug 2005 8:02 pm |
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MVS
Member Since: 18 Jul 2005
Location: People's Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 419
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Have got a promise that I Should get the car back tomorrow @ close of play.
Don't know yet what is/was corroded, as I got a third hand message from workshop supervisor, (who had gone home), from after sales manager.
Should find out more tomorrow when I pick up the beloved D3.
 Would approaching What Car's Helpline shame LR into action
Mike
P.S. Not holding my breath as I know what getting the parts seems to be like @ the minute.
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| 1st Aug 2005 8:04 pm |
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