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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26774
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I agree with your view BN. It would be counter productive to spill the beans in public at this stage, as it would only serve to put LR on the defensive.
They have not yet removed the pre-heat menu, but they have not yet fixed it either.
I much prefer the politely direct, but discreet methods, such as writing a letter to customer relations (as I did, and I got a reply), or persistantly talking to your dealer (again as I have done).
If we all do this, then eventually they will take note.
What would make me 'go public' would be if the 2006 model comes out with a working FBH timer, accurate fuel computer, and all the other bugs fixed, and we had not been offered a solution by then. Lets wait and see, we have a 3 year warranty.
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 5th Apr 2005 3:38 pm |
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pers1
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 56
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According to the specs on RR Sport it comes with the Tire monitor and the
adaptiv criuse controll.
So may be we could get our dealers to upload some of the RR Sport software.
Order the extra hardware for the adaptiv criuse control for en "RR Sport"
and fitt it into the Disoc 3. It should work?
PerS
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| 6th Apr 2005 8:15 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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The RR Sport is apparently virtually a D3 and the software is the same I believe as you say. However Autologic say they will have their programme ready by the end of the month and they should be able to sort out what LR appear not to be able to do. Autologic is what most of the independent LR specialists use, so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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| 6th Apr 2005 9:52 am |
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DiscoMad
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 190
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Pers1
Not sure that it will be that simple ! there are several extra bits involved, but of course with enough £ anything is possible  Keep dreaming.
Interesting news item about cruise control being banned in Belgium !
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/CARS/news/news...dbid=25809
BN: will be interesting what they come up with. Presumably you need to find a dealer that uses the Autologic system and then keep the LR dealer from uploading official LR software !!!
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| 6th Apr 2005 10:31 am |
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pers1
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 56
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Hey DiscoMad
Keep us updated on the comming autologic for disco 3
pers
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| 6th Apr 2005 11:21 am |
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NightFox
Member Since: 02 Apr 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 125
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BN wrote:Hi Nightfox, re your comment 'does the press know' I think to make the press aware of our issues would devalue a basically very good car. The press usually will make a big deal, get their readers and we are left with a car that has been defamed and LR alienated.
I take your point. I've just spoken with Customer Services and got absolutely nowhere though. I know that I am the "new boy" on this forum, and don't want to be getting too big for my boots, but I intend sending the following letter to LR's CEO - can someone just make sure I've got my facts straight first though please!
Thanks.
---------------------------------------------
Mr J Greenwell
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Land Rover
Banbury Road
Gaydon
Warwickshire
CV35 0RR
Dear Mr Greenwell,
You will be aware that the Discovery 3 is equipped with a "Cabin Pre-Heat" and "Cabin Pre-Cool" feature on all but (possibly) the base models, which allows the cabin to be heated or cooled for 30 minutes at a pre-selected time, by means of the fitted Webasto fuel burning heater or forced air circulation accordingly.
You will also be aware that the current functionality of this feature is impaired, in that the timer will only trigger activation if the radio is switched on at the time, and furthermore the radio is configured to turn off after approximately one hour once keys have been removed from the ignition.
To date, the response to this issue from Land Rover has been disappointing. Dealers appear to be either misinformed or completely unaware of this issue, and the response from Land Rover Customer Service varies from blind denial that the feature even exists, through to more concerning statements that the functionality will be removed in toto as part of a future software upgrade.
Notwithstanding the potential criminal and civil legal implications surrounding such an intention, this response is unacceptable. Claiming that this feature is undocumented and therefore does not exist is insulting - the feature clearly does exist; the issue is that it does not function correctly. In the absence of any statement detailing any reason why the remediation of this feature is unviable, a large number of loyal customers are left having to conclude that - in the absence of any evidence to the contrary - Land Rover has little or no inclination to support its existing customers, particularly where there is no potential revenue to be recognized in doing so.
I would offer you this opportunity to address this conception by either:
a) Investigating, developing and implementing a solution to this issue, or,
b) Issuing a clear statement detailing why remediation of this feature is unviable.
You should be flattered that the loyalty of your existing Discovery 3 owner-base is such that there is a reluctance to “do our dirty washing in public†by bringing this situation to the attention of the motoring press. At this stage, we would rather hold on to the belief that your willingness to maintain customer satisfaction will prevail. Please do not let us down – it would be most disappointing to feel that this loyalty was being taken for granted or abused.
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| 6th Apr 2005 11:46 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26774
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An excellent letter. Very accurate and well written. I would invite him to look at Disco3.com (as the only available UK based user forum) and read the posts.
I have a case number with LRCS about the FBH issue which is still ongoing. I will PM you the case number so you can include it in your letter "as a contribution from the Disco3 forum" By doing so, LR (and the CEO) cannot deny knowledge of this issue.
Anyone else wanting this case number to include in a letter please PM me. I don't want to make it public, because we are trying to keep this underwraps and give LR a last chance to respond to us.
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| 6th Apr 2005 2:57 pm |
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18562
 
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Gareth wrote:I would invite him to look at Disco3.com (as the only available UK based user forum)
Eh? Where's that then Gareth 
Martin
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| 6th Apr 2005 3:13 pm |
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NightFox
Member Since: 02 Apr 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 125
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Gareth wrote:An excellent letter. Very accurate and well written. I would invite him to look at Disco3.com (as the only available UK based user forum) and read the posts.
I have a case number with LRCS about the FBH issue which is still ongoing. I will PM you the case number so you can include it in your letter "as a contribution from the Disco3 forum" By doing so, LR (and the CEO) cannot deny knowledge of this issue.
Anyone else wanting this case number to include in a letter please PM me. I don't want to make it public, because we are trying to keep this underwraps and give LR a last chance to respond to us.
Thanks for the PM. I didn't mention www.disco3.com as it appears to be a web site about a spanish pub  However, I also didn't mention www.disco3.co.uk as I wasn't sure other members would be happy for me to do this. However, if members are happy for me to use this forum as "ammunition", then I agree it will certainly add strength to the letter.
Cheers,
Neil
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| 6th Apr 2005 3:14 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26774
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Oooooops  Sorry! Too many problems with computers and 'tinternet today.
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| 6th Apr 2005 3:17 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Nightfox - an excellent letter!  FYI, I wrote in not dissimilar terms to the CEO after an unsatisfactory attitude from a certain CS Adviser (he knows who he is ), and the upshot was:- NO written response or even acknowledgement from Mr Greenwell (that will be dealt with later with Ford as the letter was Rec Delivery so was clearly received); however the CS Adviser was obviously given a B******** & told to organise a meeting with the regional technical manager. That was interesting in that it revealed that he did not know half the faults in the vehicle and the best argument he could come up with was that instructions as to how to work the pre-heater were not in the manual so it should not be there!! (feeble!)
My letter also warned that I had taken action to ensure that they remedied the defect in terms of the warranty, but they seem to have burried their heads in the sand on that one meantime... we shall see
BTW, that is probably the key to many of the problems.. - we do not need to have a go at our dealers personally, rather LR itself albeit through the dealers, as it is LR who have issued us all with a 3 year warranty against manufacturing defects - a flaw in computer programming is just as much a manufacturing defect as a mechanical flaw.
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| 7th Apr 2005 7:38 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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I will add my bit, yes good letter and if it is kept sensible as we have so far LR will have had their chance to make amends. I am cancelling 6 more D3's which I have ordered if I do not receive an answer very soon. If my RR can have a pre-heater and work, why does the D3 not. I still think they have messed up with the tank.
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| 7th Apr 2005 3:31 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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BN wrote: I am cancelling 6 more D3's which I have ordered if I do not receive an answer very soon. .
BN "6 more"?? - what are you doing, running a hire company???
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| 7th Apr 2005 7:48 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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No, we teach specialist off road driving and survival to scientists and oil company geologists in east europe and the Sahara. Had 35 LR110's until they put the TD5 engine in which could not be repaired in the field with a hammer and a piece of string. A little more refined now with the D3's and RR's, but they are no good for real outback work due to the electronics, but very comfortable. The first D3 is about to be physically challenged next week when it goes to Russia with 2 tonne trailer in tow. Have a good relationship with the Moscow LR dealer. Their website is www.landrovercentre.ru may need them. I bet they will have a software fix!! 
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| 7th Apr 2005 8:20 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26774
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Wow! sounds good. Lets have some photo's of the expedition.
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| 7th Apr 2005 8:23 pm |
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