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Land Rover finance cock up?
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DaveT
 


Member Since: 01 Aug 2005
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 2573

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Indus SilverDiscovery 4

Had one from Vee-dub finance today, for an agreement that started in may 2012.
They are paying the refund direct into the account the payments were made from. No chance of agreeing or disagreeing there then Laughing
 Long succession of Disco's since 2001...
SIII Lightweight - neglected & rusting. Bulkhead, A panels, vent panel & outriggers now disintegrated - Next years project! 
 
Post #137752821st Nov 2014 10:41 pm
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

Blimey, they were still failing to comply in 2012? Shocked

I'm off to dig through some of my own paperwork! Somewhere in my mountain of Land Rover related invoices are some annual statements......

Oh, more light reading for those so inclined. The requirements for the content of regulated agreements can be found here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/11...167_en.pdf

It's items 4-11 under "Content of statements provided in relation to fixed-sum credit agreements "

You'll see reference to "Schedule 1". Well here it is - failure to comply means any interest paid during the period of default by the lender (12 months between each statement) is not due and must be refunded.

Quote:
INFORMATION TO BE INCLUDED IN STATEMENTS RELATING TO FIXEDSUM
CREDIT AGREEMENTS
1. The period to which the statement relates.
2.—(1) The name, telephone number or numbers, postal address and, where appropriate, any
other address of the creditor.
(2) Where the creditor and the debtor have entered into an arrangement under which the creditor
has given the debtor details of a particular employee or category of employee of the creditor
whom the debtor is entitled to contact in relation to all his dealings with the creditor, the creditor
may, instead of including the telephone number or numbers referred to in sub-paragraph (1), refer
to that arrangement.
3. Information specific to the agreement—
(a) a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it;
(b) the amount of credit provided and, where applicable, to be provided under the agreement
(shown as one figure); 12
(c) (i) any rate or rates of interest applicable on a per annum basis which applied during the
period to which the statement relates and—
(aa) the periods during which each rate applied; and
(bb) if applicable, the element of the credit to which each rate applied; or
(ii) where the rate or rates of interest are not applicable on a per annum basis, the rate or
rates of interest on the credit provided under the agreement, in each case quoted on a
per annum basis and a statement explaining how and when interest charges are
calculated and applied under the agreement;
(d) (i) the date on which the agreement became an executed agreement; or
(ii) the date of first movement on the account;
(e) (i) the duration; or
(ii) the minimum duration,
of the agreement as provided in the agreement;
(f) any opening balance under the agreement at the beginning of the period to which the
statement relates;
(g) the amount and date of any payment made into the account by, or to the credit of, the
debtor during the period to which the statement relates;
(h) the amount and date of any interest or other charges payable by the debtor which became
due during the period to which the statement relates, whether or not the interest or other
charges relate only to that period;
(i) the amount and date of any movement in the account during the period to which the
statement relates which is not required to be included in the statement under subparagraphs
(g) and (h); and
(j) the balance under the agreement at the end of the period to which the statement relates.


PART 2 Regulation 4(b)
FORMS OF WORDING TO BE INCLUDED IN STATEMENTS RELATING TO
FIXED-SUM CREDIT AGREEMENTS
4. Each of the following forms of wording shall be contained in a statement under this Part:
“Settling your credit agreement early
You can settle this agreement at any time by giving us notice in writing and paying off the
amount you owe. If you wish to settle early you should contact us for a final settlement
figure.”;
“Dispute resolution
If you have a problem with your agreement, please try to resolve it with us in the first
instance. If you are not happy with the way in which we handled your complaint or the
result, you may be able to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If you do not
take up your problem with us first you will not be entitled to complain to the Ombudsman.
We can provide details of how to contact the Ombudsman.”;
“Paying less than the agreed sum:
If you pay less than your agreed payment in most cases it is likely to take you longer and
may cost you more to pay off the debt under the agreement.
If you have difficulties making payments under your credit agreement please contact us if
you have not already done so to discuss terms for the rest of the agreement. You may also want to seek advice on what to do from an independent free advice agency such as the
Citizens Advice Bureau.”.
PART 3 Regulation 4(c)
FORMS OF WORDING TO BE INCLUDED IN FIXED-SUM CREDIT
STATEMENTS RELATING TO HIRE-PURCHASE OR CONDITIONAL SALE
AGREEMENTS
5. The following forms of wording shall be included, as appropriate, in a statement under this
Part:
“Termination: Your rights
You also have the right to end this agreement early in accordance with section 99 of the
Consumer Credit Act 1974. You will not have to pay all the sums due under the agreement
but you will not be entitled to retain the goods if you do this. Details were set out in your
credit agreement. If you wish to terminate the agreement you should contact us for further
information including any amount payable on termination.”.
“If you wish we can provide you with separate settlement figures for your [hire purchase]
[conditional sale] [NOTE 1] agreement and for your insurance finance agreement. Please
contact us in writing to obtain this.”.
NOTE 1: Delete as applicable.


Welcome to my world folks, welcome to my world Big Cry
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #137753721st Nov 2014 10:50 pm
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

Aha! Finally dug out the statement from the Office of Fair Trading on this matter:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...2014/18-14

Seems it was their swansong, as the FCA took over Consumer Credit regulation from the OFT the following month.

Here's a copy of the letter the FCA wrote to over 50 UK Financial Institutions late in 2013 suggesting they get their collective shizzle together:

Letter to the naughty banks (clicky)

Right, that's quite enough work for tonight, cider is calling.

If anyone wants me to check over any documents they have for compliance, I'll happily do so but would ask that you consider a small donation to the Team Goat Riders Help for Heroes pot (details in my signature) Thumbs Up
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no. 

Last edited by NoDo$h on 21st Nov 2014 11:07 pm. Edited 2 times in total 
Post #137754721st Nov 2014 11:04 pm
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Woolmeister
 


Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3459

Ukraine 

Mine was also from May 2012, DaveT. Thumbs Up

It just paid for a new battery on the D3! Rolling with laughter

Al, is a "Non-Regulated" ("Non-Cancellable" it says Rolling Eyes ) agreement (i.e. my Land Rover Freedom plan from May 2007) also bound by the CC Act 1974 or is this a different kettle of fish altogether?

Cheers,


Steve
 2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park! 
 
Post #137754821st Nov 2014 11:05 pm
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

Steve, the regulations came into force regarding section 77 (statements) on 6th April 2008, BUT were applied retrospectively to existing REGULATED agreements.

The triggers for "unregulated" versus "regulated" changed in 2008 and your agreement would have been a "regulated" agreement if written after 1 April 2008. This change in status was NOT retrospective; an unregulated agreement remained unregulated.

Regrettably, section 77 only applies to regulated agreements so in your case, no dice I'm afraid. Sad

There was a well documented case where Northern Rock issued unregulated agreements with "regulated" scattered all through the paperwork and they were forced to pay out. Worth checking?

Al
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #137756221st Nov 2014 11:20 pm
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GLYNNE
 


Member Since: 06 Oct 2006
Location: KENT
Posts: 4666

England 

I bought my old 58 plate back in December 2008 and took out LR finance (Blackhorse) and sold the car on a year later. I've since moved house twice, so guess they will struggle to contact me now Confused and haven't any old documentation regarding the finace as it was a long time ago now and with the moves lots of paperwork was sorted out and shredded Big Cry

Is there a way I can see if I have a case or not Question
  
Post #137756721st Nov 2014 11:31 pm
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

If you sold it and settled the finance before 13 months were up, no case as there is no obligation to provide a statement until 1 year from inception plus 30 days.

If you settled it outside that period, they would have been required to send a statement. It's for them to prove compliance (that they sent a statement with all the right wording), not you to prove they haven't complied. Black Horse are working their way through every agreement so will get to yours if it meets the definitions.....

Oh who am I kidding? Their record keeping isn't all that great so drop them a line and suggest that they may not have complied with Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended 2007) and that you would welcome their proposal to redress the situation.

Dubbs, you could try the same for your case as per PM Thumbs Up

Now......

Click image to enlarge
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #137757821st Nov 2014 11:48 pm
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GLYNNE
 


Member Since: 06 Oct 2006
Location: KENT
Posts: 4666

England 

Will get SWMBO on the case then Very Happy as she loves an argument Laughing

Sounds like there's nothing to loose Thumbs Up
  
Post #137758121st Nov 2014 11:56 pm
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

She loves an argument? That sweet, mild mannered, lovely lady that terrified me into fixing your netbook that evening? Never!

Whistle
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #137758421st Nov 2014 11:57 pm
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GLYNNE
 


Member Since: 06 Oct 2006
Location: KENT
Posts: 4666

England 

Laughing that's the one Thumbs Up
  
Post #137758722nd Nov 2014 12:07 am
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pacsixty
 


Member Since: 02 Nov 2014
Location: leeds
Posts: 81

England 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

sound interesting , took finance out with blackhorse in 2007 through to 2011 ...so gonna drop them a letter, cant seem to find any statements but have the agreement number...so here goes...will update as and when
  
Post #137823823rd Nov 2014 10:17 pm
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SN
 


Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710


hmmm this IS interesting... I took Black Horse finance + balloon on my D3 in January 2009 (two months before Gareth AND via the same dealers)

I've not seen any letter yet - is there a specific 'communication' from BH that should have had words on but didn't? I'm not sure I've still got all my docs on this now as I paid the balloon off 18 months ago....
 Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)   
Post #137830024th Nov 2014 1:24 am
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NoDo$h
 


Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

Ukraine 

Each of your annual statements should have detailed the early settlement process and told you how much rebate you would get for settling early.

If this was missed they aren't entitled to retain interest for the period covered by that statement. Thumbs Up
 I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.  
Post #137835424th Nov 2014 9:38 am
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stew 46
 


Member Since: 01 Dec 2011
Location: cornwall
Posts: 10146

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Siberian SilverDiscovery 3

It had finance on a dumper and a work pick through another company im guessing i should look in to it Thumbs Up
 -------------------------------------------------
if you cant hold on dont let go , it ill come in handy for something even if you never use it.
D3 SE 05,
110 s wagon 300 tdi SOLD
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crew cab transit
transit connect
ausa dumper, muck truck .
peljob 2.5 digger
06 L 200 crew cab 
 
Post #137836324th Nov 2014 9:56 am
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SN
 


Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710


NoDo$h wrote:
so drop them a line and suggest that they may not have complied with Section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended 2007) and that you would welcome their proposal to redress the situation.
Having hunted high and low through my efficient filing system for the statements in question - I have drawn a blank Crying or Very sad turns out I paid it off in March 2012 so two years of interest on £8.5K balloon + rest of outstanding balance is still worth a 'fishing letter' methinks Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)   
Post #137848524th Nov 2014 2:53 pm
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