Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Fan moved when trying to start the car today and garage have said engine can’t be ceased then
Just got to see the verdict on what it is now thenDisco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
11th Jan 2024 9:16 pm
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Update and asking for advise please guys
Mechanic just called now they can’t remove the sensor as the bolt is seized so saying got to either remove the front diff or gear box to get to it - but it may not be the sensor so asking me wether I want to try either way at my own risk
Saying it could still be the crank even if the sensor is changed as it can break diagonally and still means the crank would spin the fan
In limbo and not sure what to do at this point guyswhat would you recommend please?Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
19th Jan 2024 10:55 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
Is you garage a LR Indy, or an "all makes here" set up?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
19th Jan 2024 2:13 pm
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Land Rover onlyDisco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
19th Jan 2024 2:14 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
Well you're in a pickle it would seem.
Given what they have told you I think gearbox removal is your best bet as a seized bolt will not be any more accessible even with the diff out. (it does need to be dropped slightly for hands access)
I know this doesn't help you, and I'm not trying to undermine your confidence in your garage. But for what it's worth, the cranks do not split diagonally, and I have never come across a seized sensor bolt either as it is well shielded. Perhaps they've either never done it before, or have damaged the head of the bolt themselves? If it is genuinely a seized bolt it's gearbox out!
Either way you are well in the fray now, and will have to make the call, which only you can do.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
19th Jan 2024 2:39 pm
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Just been to speak in person and look and what they’re saying is they can’t access the bolt without removing the gear box or diff - but they don’t want to charge me a big bill to do the sensor only to find that it’s not the sensor and end up paying loads for nothing And find that it’s a new engine needed and then another bill
They’re saying the snapped crank could still spin the cam and look like it’s ok but the chain could be snapped etc
So saying I’d be best getting another engine and swapping the whole thing
Really in a pickle!Disco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
19th Jan 2024 3:11 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
Jump in and away you go, problem solved? Plus you have a donor for bits if you can keep it, or just send it to the Disco graveyard for £2k. So you'd be done and dusted for a grand!!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
19th Jan 2024 3:23 pm
latnutgub
Member Since: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 170
Hi, I changed the sensor during a clutch change. With gearbox and flywheel off its very accessible.
I gave up getting access from the outside as there is too much in the way.
The sensor bolt I found quite tight to undo.
It does not seem like a snapped crankshaft, but as you suggest drop the oil remove sump to confirm its in one piece.
Good luck with ur decision.
19th Jan 2024 3:31 pm
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Thanks guys
IDE really rather avoid replacing the car as I’ve renewed this one so much
Would sump removal give a definitive answer to this or just a chance to possibly see?
The mechanic said the sensors never ever fail in their life times not seen it fail it’s always been the crank or chain - has anyone seen sensor fail?
Can’t see buying an engine as a solution if it’s not needed!
Can’t see how it’s gear box out or diff out just to check a sensor seems hard to graspDisco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
19th Jan 2024 4:04 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10676
Don’t Remove sump as there are two layers to remove to see anything.
I would remove gearbox. They are experienced at that!
Change sensor.
Try and start car without gearbox. If it starts then
Service or replace your gearbox as it has leaks and xy sensor issues ? while it’s out
19th Jan 2024 5:00 pm
Jamiehol
Member Since: 13 Nov 2015
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 387
cmb2020 wrote:
Can’t see how it’s gear box out or diff out just to check a sensor seems hard to grasp
Without taking the sensor out and putting it next to a known working trigger wheel being spun say in a lathe all you can test is the resistance of the sensor and wiring at the pins of the harness at the ECU but that isn’t really definitive.
You could possibly put a scope on the wires from the sensor just to see if there is a signal but just a really noisy one which is out of spec for the ECU.
Given that the trigger wheel and sensor are at the same end of the crank as the starter motor even if the crank had snapped you would expect the crank sensor to generate a signal when being the starter is cranking the engine over.
It does seem most likely that it is the crank sensor, trigger wheel or even a wiring issue between the sensor and the ECU.
19th Jan 2024 7:40 pm
latnutgub
Member Since: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 170
latnutgub wrote:
Hi, I changed the sensor during a clutch change. With gearbox and flywheel off its very accessible.
I gave up getting access from the outside as there is too much in the way.
The sensor bolt I found quite tight to undo.
It does not seem like a snapped crankshaft, but as you suggest drop the oil remove sump to confirm its in one piece.
Good luck with ur decision.
&t=875s
I think it might be worth you looking at this LR time video. Its got the similar issue to yours.
20th Jan 2024 11:02 pm
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Hey all
Thanks for your help so far
I’ve been considering all options and this situation is really difficult
Ultimately the issue comes down to as I’m told either remove gear box just to check if the sensor is the fault - if not then I need a new engine on top of gear box removal bill. Or just buy a new engine and fit it - but might end up with the old working engine being in the mechanics hands so they benefit from my loss. Either way I’m trapped!
I was wondering hypothetically speaking if the garage got a timing wheel from another engine and put in on a drill say, then spun it on the drill next to a spare sensor connected to my car wiring loose and dangling under the car… would the sensor pick up the wheel being spun on the drill to get a reading and allow the car to start (if the sensor was at fault)?
Or would that not work? Hopefully I’ve explained it well
Otherwise, what would you guys do?
I’m invested in the car it’s been renewed for years - but the risk of replacing the engine on a whim and guessing it’s a new engine needed sounds stupid to me. I could buy another 2 cheap discos for the same price and just call it a loss with this one maybe?
Surely there’s a cheap way of finding if it’s the sensor or the crank without a hefty bill
Would the gear box need removing anyway if the engine was replaced? Maybe I could offer to pay the garage to remove the gear box and swap the sensor - then if it’s fixed great - if not then they keep the gear box out and I buy an engine with warranty and get it delivered for them to fit and reinstall gear box? Or would the gear box not need removing to swap the engine?
Mechanic thinks it’s snapped chain or crank - said he can hear clicking in the engine. But I never heard any clicking and I know they have been after my engine previously wanting to give me £1000 for the entire car. So I know they work at the best interests of their business over my own interests. They would be laughing if they got a working engine for free and just swapped the sensor after they’ve done my car engine swap. It just doesn’t make sense to do that
It all comes down to a poxy little sensor right now trying to find if it’s a tiny piece of plastic or an entire new engine
Limited for time now as they won’t keep it on the ramp for long then it’s £50 a week to store it
I know they have a timing wheel and spare sensor as I saw them in The workshop - ideally they could be used or does the speed of the spin need to be specific to start the car? Surely they can modify a wheel bracket to fit a drill
Sorry for the long winded message haha - as you can see I’m tangled up it’s not the only problem I have at the moment it’s the last thing I need making me ill now. I can’t afford to throw money on chances.
ThanksDisco 3 SE Manual 2005 V6 2.7
Buckley, North Wales
21st Jan 2024 2:26 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10676
The cost of removing a gearbox. (a couple of hours for a mechanic) should be a lot less than the cost of removing and refitting an engine, filling with fluids and getting it running, and engine itself.
The advantage of removing the gearbox, is that you can inspect the trigger wheel, and as a last resort be able to replace it. (fitting accurace is critical).
Maybe you should consider removing the gearbox yourself. How difficult can it be? (I know you have done cambelt and oil pump) It's more about getting it onto the ground safely with jack/wooden blocks. Need to remove the transferbox first to reduce weight and make things easy. At least this is just costing you time.
Disconnect clutch and selector. I have no idea about D3 manuals.
or ask them how many hours they estimate to remove gearbox and their hourly rate and you can decide if it's better for them to do it.
Regarding your electric drill and sensor question. No the engine won't start. As it won't be synced to the cam sensor, and even if the injectors squirt, could be out of time.
Regarding your previous experances of garages in the area. They do have a mixture of incompitence and trying to rip you off. So tell them you are likely going to get it moved else where. See if they suddenly want to try and keep the car and be more helpful and recommend a cheaper approach and play along.
Otherwise get it moved where to can work on it. and drop the gearbox before storage charges start
21st Jan 2024 3:39 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10676
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