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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10440
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Find a safe place a deserted car park or similar put some cones out and practise  In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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 8th Jan 2008 7:17 pm |
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roverdawg
Member Since: 27 Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 40
  
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I agree wholeheartedly with the above posts. A little bit of throttle keeps the wheels doing their thing. What kind of tires are on your vehicle? Best advice I've received for winter driving is "Brake or turn but never both. One or the other." I discovered that when I was turning in snowy conditions esp. downhill, I had a bad habit of braking and would have the rear end slip on me. Much better now! Have fun, be safe! 2005 LR3 HSE
1998 Disco (sold)
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| 17th Jan 2008 7:19 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
  
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AndrewS wrote:Find a safe place a deserted car park or similar put some cones out and practise
Not had the opportunity with the D3 yet......but a couple of years ago had the A1M northbound almost all to myself in my last Disco 2- snowbound for miles & abandoned....a lot was learnt about just what I could & couldnt do.
The most impressive thing is when on a motorway / dual carriageway the neaside & half of the second lane (note - not said the overtaking lane) is clear to tarmac & a heap of either frozen slush or fresh snow in the offisde edge.
You come behind someone & want to overtake - nearside wheels on tarmac - offside on slush / snow.....how is it going to handle with acceleration / decelleration? The Disco 2 just did it no laundry moments or dramas - if the Disco3 is superior it has to be awsome. For some miles I was in a group of vehicles including a Volvo Estate police car - this vehicle really struggled with some of the road.
I agree with AndrewS - find a car park or "quiet" strtch of road BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 17th Jan 2008 7:36 pm |
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opodden
Member Since: 29 Jun 2006
Location: Elverum
Posts: 100
 
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I've been driving in snow and ice since 1984 in different vehicles with rear wheel drive (Volvo 142, Fiat 125), front wheel drive (Renault 19, Toyota Corolla) and 4WD (Mercedes GD240, Mitsubishi Pajero and Audi S4 V8). What really separates the D3 from these cars, is it's massive weight. It's more than 300 kgs heavier than even the big Mercedes.
This mass and size is hard to control for both driver and electronics. The surface in the winter will vary a lot: Bare spots with good traction. Ice with variable traction depending on temperature. It's hard to see what the road is like under the snow (camber, ruts etc). Varying snow depth will also cause inconsistent behaviour.
I have the Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tyres, and in my experience (after two winters), the tires will sometimes "swim" on top of the snow. This sometimes causes understeer, where the car will just plow straight forward. Other times the tyres will slice through the top layer, and this can cause inconsostent behaviour. Oversteer mostly happens on ice, when the traction is very poor (often following understeer).
In my opinion this change between over- and understeer is not unusual for 4WD vehicles. I think the LR3 is a very capable winter vehicle as long as you keep your speed down. Otherwise the momentum of the vehicle will get you into trouble when you have to brake sharply, or on entering corners. The advanced traction management systems has helped me to better control my Disco on several occations, but took some getting used to, as the vehicle isn't as consistent (consisently bad) as my old Pajero.
When my winter tyres are worn out, I will replace them with studded tyres, bacause that's the only thing that helps on ice with a thin layer of water on top; a condition that's getting more and more common where I live. The Nokian SUV 5 are supposed to be very good. I think I will try a slightly bigger dimension (275/60-18) as this will give me a little bit more ground clearance and flotation in deep snow.
To sum up, I think the car is great! But: Due to the unpredicatability of winter conditions and the heavy weight of the car, it will slide a little front and rear from time to time. So go slowly and react quickly!
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| 17th Jan 2008 11:15 pm |
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simon
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 18296
 
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Nice post
As said previously, weight and momentum is the biggest issue along with too much speed. Better to drive like a granny than end up off the road for good trying to outdo the laws physics by thinking your invincible in your 4x4.
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| 17th Jan 2008 11:25 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
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| ....no gritting or clearing |
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Back to the late 70's I moved to Donegal Southern Ireland in a particularly bad winter (78 / 79).....no gritting or clearing roads in any way shape or form. At the time I had a Volvo 240 (very good in snow conditions) & a Peugeot 504 Ti (really bad) up to that point I had little experience of having to drive in these type of conditions. The locals are well used to handling this & adjust their speed & technique accordingly (most of the time). I learnt how to drive the 504 (quite a powerful car for the era) drift it around bends & generally cope (504 had the worst car heater I have ever experienced).
Some years after that I got a Volvo 760 (with the Douvrin PRV 2.7 V6 engine) - supposedly a top of the range car with bottom of the range winter driving performance - the reason? lots of torque (spins the wheels easily) 60 series tyres with unsuitable tread pattern & brakes that were either off or on (no abs on this model originally).
Things were so bad I rang & wrote to Volvo - their reply was to refer me to the car handbook page 53 "this vehicle ii fitted with tyres unsuitable for year round use" - my reply was "how can a car be sold in November" with this situation. The person I spoke to said that normally in Scandinavia people generally swap tyres........I pointed out Northern Ireland wasn't in Scandinavia. The resolution was I was supplied FOC 5 Gislaved winter tyres (65 series). (Note Northern Ireland in non-rural areas the treatment of roads isn't the normal UK standard....lots of black ice)
With these fitted the car was then as good as the basic 240......(very good in snow conditons) as regards traction, brakes still  poor...but car driveable.
One thing that amazed me was the shape of the Gislaveds quite narrow & rounded (these were unstudded) & apart from the hassle of changing over twice per year allowed the car to be used. Some years later I fitted 65 series Vredestien winter tyres which were as good in the snow & could be used all year around.
Personally I wouldn't bother with studs as if used predominantly on tarmac just get worn away (quite rapidly actually) - they are meant for ice & hard frozen snow.
The advantage with a 4x4 is you have all the "go".....no skidding to get going conversely when you need to stop you have to remember Disco 3's are big heavy vehicles & even with 4x4 ABS may lock wheels.
You have to be realistic....& learn what your car & you can do. BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 18th Jan 2008 1:24 am |
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dick dastardly
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: wiggleigh bottom
Posts: 1112
 
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On the way back from skiing last weekend decided to go over a small mountain pass that is never salted or cleaned where new snow had fallen the day before. The approach and exit at lower levels were VERY icy due to snow melt / refreeze. This was a pass that I had tried 2 years previously in a toyota previa with excellent winter tyres and better conditions and failed miserabley.
The D3 just ate up the black ice as if it wasnt there ! Maybe the pressure due to the weight of the thing just melts the ice enough to imprint the tread pattern and somewhow gets grip. In the snowy parts (20cm new snow) I was actually trying to provoke sliding and couldn't (silly thing to do if I think about it on windy narrow roads with steep side drops).
An absolute joy to drive even in the worst conditions. Still havent stopped smiling. There's one wheel on my wagon, but i'm still rollin' along, it's the cherokee, they're after me, but I'm singing a happy song
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| 19th Jan 2008 2:12 pm |
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