highlands wrote:

JordsDisco wrote:

You can’t deny others the right to something you’ve taken advantage of?

Do you think everyone from wherever in the world should be allowed unfettered freedom to live and work in the UK?
How do you think that would work out?

Why would that be the case?

The UK as a member of the EU had FOM, which had strict controls (we chose not implement them and still had record low levels of unemployment). We are now paying a high price for ending it along with leaving the single market and customs union.

Immigrants from outside the UK and EEA were, at least in theory, also controlled, in practice of course successive governments have had an appalling record of doing so.

LT wrote:

Where do you have evidence that there is cheap labour going from the H&I to England?

I have personal evidence from visiting many islands over the years that young people move to the mainland and England for a change in lifestyle and often work in low paid jobs.

Whilst I haven't looked for any statistics, if indeed any exist, I would be surprised if these are unique examples.

LT wrote:

I don't oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work. I do believe that migration does need to be managed however.

You will recall from the Brexit thread, which unsurprisingly you no longer participate in

LT wrote:

...that the UK was free to implement the strict control policy as it saw fit, and yet it did not, while other EU member countries – including Belgium and Italy – use this legislation to repatriate thousands of EU migrants each year.

LT wrote:

So you would prefer to see the work automated, rather than allow foreigners who would pay tax and help support the local communities, to be given the chance to to earn a living for themselves and provide for their families. Hmm!

LT wrote:

I have indeed noticed that HGV drivers have become better paid. This is in a bid to attract them from other employees due to a shortage of UK HGV drivers. NOT as a result of higher productivity.

I am well aware of the economic pitfalls of rising wages due to labour shortages rather than as a result of increase productivity and economic growth. Are you?

Yep, I covered it in various modules at business school!

The fact that logistics operations will now have a higher cost associated with drivers they will look to increase productivity that will limit the impact of that higher cost.

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Quote:

I don't have access to the politics forum, nor do I seek it. I didn't realise it was even still going.

The Brexit thread is ‘only’ up to page 592.

And you haven’t missed much.

Click image to enlarge

Paul J. wrote:

Quote:

I don't have access to the politics forum, nor do I seek it. I didn't realise it was even still going.

The Brexit thread is ‘only’ up to page 592.

And you haven’t missed much.

Click image to enlarge

highlands wrote:

If the cost of transporting loads increases you can do things to try to mitigate.
e.g. if you are a 'restaurant' chain serving cola and sending it across the country inefficiently in bottles, and you don't mind too much doing it that way as the drivers are cheap and readily available, maybe if the number of drivers decreases and they become more expensive it now makes sense to just send out syrup and gas instead thereby making better use of the volume and load limits.

Ah postmix ...been around for 40+ years in the UK ...the main driver is not to reduce load costs ...the main driver is that it costs 6p for you to make a drink that you sell for the price of a pint

highlands wrote:

LT wrote:

Where do you have evidence that there is cheap labour going from the H&I to England?

I have personal evidence from visiting many islands over the years that young people move to the mainland and England for a change in lifestyle and often work in low paid jobs.

Whilst I haven't looked for any statistics, if indeed any exist, I would be surprised if these are unique examples.

Are those examples of young people from the H&I 'underbidding' the rates that would otherwise be paid, other than there being a tiny increase in the available workforce?
nb the H&I would be pretty much an infinitesimal impact compared to, say, the A8 countries.
I'll also wager (SWIDT) that a waitress is likely to get a comparable or higher wage in the H&I to that of a waitress in most of England.
The examples I have of C&EE workers are most definitely distorting the pay in a lot of sectors in the UK.

LT wrote:

I don't oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work. I do believe that migration does need to be managed however.

You will recall from the Brexit thread, which unsurprisingly you no longer participate in

I don't participate in it because we go round in circles over ground that was covered endlessly, just like this. I don't have access to the politics forum, nor do I seek it. I didn't realise it was even still going.
I do like to contribute to 'fresh' topics without trying to dredge up all the tired stuff that saw the Politics forum implemented in the first place. I have somewhat of a locus to this thread, given that I do slaughter pigs, which is, or was, the focus of the thread.

LT wrote:

...that the UK was free to implement the strict control policy as it saw fit, and yet it did not, while other EU member countries – including Belgium and Italy – use this legislation to repatriate thousands of EU migrants each year.

Well, there you go, we were, apparently, free to implement strict controls as part of the EU and we are most certainly free to implement strict controls now. The UK is implementing the controls that it sees fit...do you have an issue with the UK as a sovereign nation exercising such control or is it only okay when it is tried to be exercised when part of a supra-national bloc?

LT wrote:

So you would prefer to see the work automated, rather than allow foreigners who would pay tax and help support the local communities, to be given the chance to to earn a living for themselves and provide for their families. Hmm!

Maybe if we smashed up the combine harvesters we'd have plenty of foreign workers who would happily work in the fields doing that work also.
Personally I think picking & packing cabbages and the like are ripe for automation as is much of meat chopping/packing. In the meantime, having a time-limited equivalent of the old Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme would seem sensible.
I would like to see the UK head toward being a high skilled, high value, high wage economy.

LT wrote:

I have indeed noticed that HGV drivers have become better paid. This is in a bid to attract them from other employees due to a shortage of UK HGV drivers. NOT as a result of higher productivity.

I am well aware of the economic pitfalls of rising wages due to labour shortages rather than as a result of increase productivity and economic growth. Are you?

Yep, I covered it in various modules at business school!

The fact that logistics operations will now have a higher cost associated with drivers they will look to increase productivity that will limit the impact of that higher cost.

I am not aware of any employees from the H&I or EU underbidding wages. The minimum wage is set by the government, any amount above that is down to the employers.

EU workers were employed during a 9 year period of consistently falling unemployment rates. The lowest since 1975. You seem to either ignore this fact or do not understand the correlation.

The fact that the U.K. now has significant job shortages in the sectors were previously large numbers of EU workers were employed also seems to have passed you by.

Perhaps a waitress could earn more in the H&I, but for various reasons people choose to leave and work in England. I think it’s wonderful that they can. It widens their experiences and knowledge of how other communities live.

It’s a shame that you no longer participate in political threads. I used to enjoy your comments. I hope that you’ve been able to buy the high wattage vacuum cleaner and that the Scottish fishing industry is now thriving after Brexit. Although I’d wager on neither being the case.

So you really would prefer to see manual work automated, rather than allow foreigners who would pay tax and help support the local communities, to be given the chance to earn a better living for themselves and provide for their families. I find that very sad.

The increased wages for HGV drivers is a result of a poaching war, where drivers from the smaller hauliers are being lured away by the introductory bonuses and higher pay offered by the large firms, in particular the big food retailers.

The consequences of wage increases forced by a shortage of labour, at a time of rising inflation and reduced economic output will not be beneficial. Perhaps you didn’t learn that at your business school.