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Am I missing something here?
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HWN
 


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RRSTDV8 wrote:
HWN wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
I'm only offended by the atrocious conditions in which you keep your apostrophes. The poor things have died. I shall consider reporting you to the RSPCA. And as for your capital letters - they're extinct! Whistle


Sorry, Wayne, but IMHO your original post should have hyphenated "black-listing". Wink


I think you may be incorrect there Hugh. So far as I can see, blacklist is acceptable and, it seems, the norm. Wink


You also wrote "Is black listing speakers..." (without a hyphen). Wink
 
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Post #226142210th Nov 2021 9:25 pm
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Canburne
 


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RRSTDV8 wrote:
My guess is that someone that didn't understand the speaker's point complained afterwards. The student president then issued his edict as a defence against attacks on him in order to avoid being thrown out of his position.

It seems to me that the episode just shows that Cambridge undergraduates / graduates aren't what they were. What they are now is a bunch of thin skinned types that are incapable of thinking deeply about things.


The descriptive word you are looking for is SNOWFLAKE
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Post #226143810th Nov 2021 10:31 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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HWN wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
HWN wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
I'm only offended by the atrocious conditions in which you keep your apostrophes. The poor things have died. I shall consider reporting you to the RSPCA. And as for your capital letters - they're extinct! Whistle


Sorry, Wayne, but IMHO your original post should have hyphenated "black-listing". Wink


I think you may be incorrect there Hugh. So far as I can see, blacklist is acceptable and, it seems, the norm. Wink


You also wrote "Is black listing speakers..." (without a hyphen). Wink


Ah, you spotted my deliberate mistake... Whistle Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter

Embarassed

I mistakenly added a space. Banging Head
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Last edited by RRSTDV8 on 10th Nov 2021 11:24 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #226145910th Nov 2021 11:19 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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Canburne wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
My guess is that someone that didn't understand the speaker's point complained afterwards. The student president then issued his edict as a defence against attacks on him in order to avoid being thrown out of his position.

It seems to me that the episode just shows that Cambridge undergraduates / graduates aren't what they were. What they are now is a bunch of thin skinned types that are incapable of thinking deeply about things.


The descriptive word you are looking for is SNOWFLAKE


No, it isn't. It isn't an insult I use, thanks.
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Post #226146010th Nov 2021 11:23 pm
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HWN
 


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Free Speech Union wrote:
Cambridge Union U-turns over “blacklist” of banned speakers

The President of the Cambridge Union apologised for a speech made by Andrew Graham-Dixon during a debate on good taste, in which the art historian and broadcaster used “derogatory terms” while impersonating Hitler. Graham-Dixon himself apologised for several of his comments, saying they were offensive “even in quotation”.

Although Graham-Dixon won the debate, the Union’s president Keir Bradwell said a blacklist of banned speakers would be created – to include Graham-Dixon – and shared with other debating societies. The decision was labelled “Stalinist” by former Union president and author Andrew Lownie, and “pathetic” by scientist Richard Dawkins, who said university should foster and encourage free speech and free thought. John Cleese withdrew from a talk he was due to give at the Cambridge Union in protest, and asked to speak at a venue “where woke rules do not apply”. Louis de Bernières asked to be added to the blacklist in solidarity, writing that academics and artists should volunteer for such lists in order to boycott universities and institutions that practice cancel culture. Harry Clynch in the Spectator said the episode was sadly “utterly unsurprising” and that the Union had a “poor track record when it comes to defending free debate”.

Following the furore, the Union president reversed the decision and told the Telegraph: “Obviously announcing a U-turn looks silly. I was just a 21-year-old who tried to make the situation better. There is no policy to ban anyone for what they are going to say – it’s a free speech institution. If there is a dichotomy between free speech and offence, I would defend free speech. I don’t want to create an impression that the Union is against free speech.”

Nina Power in the Telegraph said the latest farrago at Cambridge was life imitating art, in reference to the Netflix show The Chair in which a professor does a Nazi salute to illustrate authoritarianism in a lecture – in a way that cannot possibly be misunderstood as an endorsement of Nazi ideology – and is then suspended when a clip of him doing so is circulated online.


I'm with Dawkins!
 
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Post #226176612th Nov 2021 12:05 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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I think the student was correct - he's just a 21 year old who was trying to do the right thing. Of course, the right thing depends on the pressure being applied to him and by whom the pressure is being applied. Hopefully he, and other students, will learn from the whole silly affair.

What is interesting (infuriating) is the discussion about it on the Union's Facebook page. Lots of people saying how stupid the blacklisting idea was etc. But one reply in a side argument made me frown:

Quote:
I disagree with you. Your comment comes across as serious tone-policing and as a woman of color, I am concerned that you as a white-presenting man would jump into this conversation to silence me.


"tone-policing?" - what does that mean? (Color - OK, I'm going to assume they're a Yank or similar). "white-presenting" - is that what we have to say now? I'm not "white", I'm "white presenting". It all smacks of an attempt to say the other person is racist and misogynist without actually saying it.

Sometimes my inner grumpy old white bloke forces itself to the fore and this is one of those. White-presenting. I ask you. Censored
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Post #226177312th Nov 2021 12:29 pm
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LT
 


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I thought “white-presenting” was just another term for racial passing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(racial_identity)
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Post #226177712th Nov 2021 12:48 pm
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HWN
 


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It's not necessarily the case that pressure was being applied. These things seem to have been programmed into anyone aged under about forty and are the default response without any thought going into the reaction.

Sad really. Making a judgement, framing an argument and discussing it with others having a range of views on the subject is part of being human - except, perhaps, in North Korea, Iran and Cambridge.
 
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Post #226178612th Nov 2021 1:01 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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I'm not sure, Hugh. The chap did nothing during the event (admitting that he was enjoying himself) but then presented a nuclear response a day or two later. That smacks of someone / a number of people complaining about something they didn't like because they didn't understand the point being made. Rather than telling the complainants to go away and think about what the speaker was saying and doing, he caved in.

I think it unfair to say that everyone under some arbitrarily chosen age is unable to think about things. Some are like that, undoubtedly, but not all or there would have an almost universal clamour by all those present at the debate.
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Post #226179212th Nov 2021 1:19 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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LT wrote:
I thought “white-presenting” was just another term for racial passing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(racial_identity)


I think the person was basically saying "I'm black and you're white and trying to shut me up because of it". But I must admit to not really understanding all of the jargon used by these people when trying to close down any discussion in this manner. And that is what it is - an attempt to close down discussions or dissent by inferring a racist bias on the part of the other person. It does a huge disservice to those that really are struggling with very real racism / misogyny / etc., sadly.
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Post #226179612th Nov 2021 1:24 pm
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HWN
 


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RRSTDV8 wrote:
I think it unfair to say that everyone under some arbitrarily chosen age is unable to think about things. Some are like that, undoubtedly, but not all or there would have an almost universal clamour by all those present at the debate.


Yes. I was channelling my 'grump old man' spirit guide there, Wayne. A lot of it is taking offence on the behalf of others (thereby implying those groups are weak and unable to stand up for themselves).

My general working principle is not to deliberately offend others.
 
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Post #226180112th Nov 2021 1:33 pm
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LT
 


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That’s really point here HWN Thumbs Up

I can see exactly the point that A. G-D was making but his choice of words was not wise and hence his apology:

"I apologise sincerely to anyone who found my debating tactics and use of Hitler's own language distressing; on reflection I can see that some of the words I used, even in quotation, are inherently offensive."


Mr Graham-Dixon’s impression was criticised by Jewish groups on campus. Cambridge JSoc said in a statement:

“Whilst we understand it was a light-hearted debate, the impression of Hitler and language used was insensitive and made a number of people feel uncomfortable and represents a serious misjudgement on the part of the speaker.”

His apology would have sufficed, but the problem is that the media in all its forms has blown this out of proportion. With the inevitable reactions from both the “woke” and the “anti-woke” brigade.

The young president of the Cambridge Union didn’t (imo) handle it very well either. Not that I blame him for that, it’s a tricky situation to be put in.
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Post #226180912th Nov 2021 2:52 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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I fear part of the problem was his choice of target for his lampooning. If he'd chosen someone like Margaret Thatcher he'd probably have had them eating out of his hand.

I find myself in two minds here. In part, yes one should be mindful of others but then it shouldn't be to the detriment of everything else such as real debate. Part of me wants to repeat Stephen Fry's words:

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Post #226181012th Nov 2021 3:28 pm
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LT
 


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In this case it wouldn’t have been hard to use another analogy, without any detriment.

I really don’t think A.G-D had any intention to offend, he just didn’t think it through.
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Post #226181112th Nov 2021 3:46 pm
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RRSTDV8
 


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If his Hitler impression had concentrated only on the Eastern Front / the Russians and didn't mentions Jews, would there have been the same outcry? I'm not so sure but obviously we'll never know.
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Post #226181812th Nov 2021 4:29 pm
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