RRSTDV8 wrote:

If his Hitler impression had concentrated only on the Eastern Front / the Russians and didn't mentions Jews, would there have been the same outcry? I'm not so sure but obviously we'll never know.

Who knows, but Nazi Germany penetrated the entire former Jewish Pale. The Russian Holocaust accounted for the deaths of millions of Soviet Jews and those who had fled to Russian from Poland (See Wiki link below).

In my opinion the fact that he did mention Jews was enough to cause a feeling of discomfort and perhaps for some offence.

Hitler was an artist before he became a politician, his traditional landscapes were not fashionable at the time, the German art world preferring the new abstract and modernist styles.

The 1937 Degenerate Art Exhibition in Munich was Hitlers revenge and it poured scorn on such works via the accompanying handbook and features in the media. The Nazis claimed that degenerate art was the product of Jews and Bolsheviks, although only six of the 112 artists featured in the exhibition were actually Jewish.

Such was the exhibitions success at stirring antisemitic thoughts, the Nazis took it on tour across Germany.

With the above in mind and the fact that “Raubkunst” was arguably the biggest act of theft in history. I can totally sympathise with those who felt uncomfortable or took some level of offence. Although as I have already said, I don’t think it was intentional.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Russia

RRSTDV8 wrote:

I realise that, but the Jews did not suffer more than others. Many more died that weren't Jewish and everyone, including the Jewish community, would do well to remember that.”

Focussing on a single victim does nothing to ensure the horrors of a mass murderer are accounted for.

You seem to be implying that Jews consider themselves to have a monopoly on suffering. A common antisemitic trope.

I would say that the Worldwide Jewry are far more aware of and remember all those who suffered and were murdered at the hands of the Nazis in WW2 and the preceding years more than any other community.

Hence why Holocaust Memorial Day (HMD) (27 January) is a national commemoration day dedicated not just to the remembrance of those who suffered in The Holocaust, under Nazi Persecution, but also subsequent genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Darfur.

In the context of this thread, A.G-D did specifically mention Jews in his speech. I attempted to explain why specifically Jews may have been offended or felt uncomfortable by it.

RRSTDV8 wrote:

LT - don't dare insinuate I'm antisemitic. For a start, it's a poor attempt to close down a discussion - the same as people using race/gender/etc. to close down discussions.

The reality is that the Russians suffered the greatest losses of life in WW2 by far. The West as a whole seem to be content to forget that fact, presumably because it didn't sit well during the Cold War etc.

I really was not insinuating anything, apologies if you thought that I was. Neither was I trying to close down any discussion.

As above, in my opinion the fact that he (A.G-D) did specifically mention Jews was enough to cause a feeling of discomfort and some offence may have been caused, especially by Jews.

I was however pointing out that you had used a well known antisemitc trope, when stating that, "Many more died that weren't Jewish and everyone, including the Jewish community, would do well to remember that." I appreciate that this wouldn't have been your intention, but it did not read well.

Jews are regularly criticised for implying that their suffering was all that they care about, at the expense of all the others who suffered. Which simply is not true, in fact it's the opposite. Jews are inherently aware of all who suffered under the Nazis and of all acts of genocide.

You also said "It sounds like I might be anti-Semitic, I realise that, but the Jews did not suffer more than others."

If by suffer you mean numbers of dead, then yes Russia had the highest death figure, estimated to be 24,000,000 (Military & Civilian) an unimaginably large and horrific number, over an eighth of the total Russian population, which in 1940 was estimated to be 194,000,000.

I am in no way belittling any Russian death, but as a percentage comparison, from 1933, when the Nazi's took power to the end of the war, two out of every three Jews in Europe had been murdered or killed in action.

There is a case to present for the Jews having suffered for the longest period under Nazi power.

The “Final Solution” was a euphemism used by Nazi Germany’s leaders to refer to their plan to annihilate the Jewish people. Whilst the Roma in Europe and political opponents of the Nazis suffered terrible deaths as well, this was genocide of the Jews.

It all began before the war, not long after the Nazi's took power. State sponsored racism led to anti-Jewish legislation, economic boycotts, and the violence of the Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogroms, in 1938, all of which aimed to systematically isolate Jews from society and drive them out of the country.

After the start of WW2, anti-Jewish policy escalated to the imprisonment and eventual murder of European Jewry. The Nazis first established ghettos (enclosed areas designed to isolate and control the Jews) in a territory in central and eastern Poland overseen by a German civilian government as well as an area of western Poland annexed to Germany. Polish and western European Jews were deported to these ghettos where they suffered terribly in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions with inadequate food.

After the June 1941 German invasion of the Soviet Union, SS and police units began massive killing operations aimed at entire Jewish communities. By autumn 1941, the SS and police introduced mobile gas vans. They were designed to complement the ongoing shooting operations.

In July 1941, Nazi leader Hermann Goering authorized SS General Reinhard Heydrich to make preparations for the implementation of a "complete solution of the Jewish question." The horrors that followed in the camps is well documented.

Whilst all citizens of Nazi occupied countries suffered terribly during the war and yes casualty/death rates were highest in Russia, I simply can't agree with you when you say that "the Jews did not suffer more than others" and I hope that I have explained my reasons why.