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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23823
  
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I suspect that your children, like mine, have had a superior and more privileged upbringing to the likes of Begum in Bethnal Green. Which probably accounts for their greater maturity. I don’t think it’s relevant or fair to make the comparison. 
The bottom line for me is that if Begum has committed offences, and if she poses a security risk, she should, as a British citizen, be given the right to a fair trial and monitored by our national security services. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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 1st Mar 2023 6:31 pm |
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waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919
 
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I actually think that my children were/are probably less mature at 15 than she was - partly because of their more sheltered upbringing.
I wouldn't exactly call it privileged either - two of them were witness to a pretty acrimonious divorce and the third arrived just when we were on our uppers and trying to recover from paying for the damned thing. For the record I was brought up in Lverpool, witnessed the riots first hand and started work on the docks when I left school - everything we have has been earned through hard graft, not privilege. Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
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| 1st Mar 2023 6:48 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23823
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I didn’t mean any offence, apologies.
What I meant to infer, was privileged in relation to Begum’s upbringing in Bethnal Green. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 1st Mar 2023 7:26 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
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LT wrote:I suspect that your children, like mine, have had a superior and more privileged upbringing to the likes of Begum in Bethnal Green. Which probably accounts for their greater maturity. I don’t think it’s relevant or fair to make the comparison.
The bottom line for me is that if Begum has committed offences, and if she poses a security risk, she should, as a British citizen, be given the right to a fair trial and monitored by our national security services.
The fact that she can be / is a citizen of another country is why she's no longer considered a British citizen. If that was not the case then she'd be back in the UK and either in prison or under some form of supervision. It's the dual nationality issue that means the doors of the kingdom are locked to her. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 1st Mar 2023 7:59 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23823
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The fact that Begum is of Bangladeshi heritage, she was born in England and has never even visited Bangladesh, fits into lazy stereotypes and makes the Government’s removal of her citizenship particularly cynical, in my opinion. As she is seen by some to be less “British” than her white counterparts would be.
It sets a nasty precedent to other British citizens who are the children of immigrants.
But then the survivors of such radicalisation, sexual abuse and exploitation are rarely perfect victims. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 1st Mar 2023 8:09 pm |
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icestationzebra
Member Since: 05 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 596
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LT wrote:I suspect that your children, like mine, have had a superior and more privileged upbringing to the likes of Begum in Bethnal Green. Which probably accounts for their greater maturity. I don’t think it’s relevant or fair to make the comparison.
Does todays dreadful news/event alter your constant of a superior upbringing having better outcomes?
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| 1st Mar 2023 8:32 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
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LT wrote:The fact that Begum is of Bangladeshi heritage, she was born in England and has never even visited Bangladesh, fits into lazy stereotypes
It's not lazy stereotyping - those are the facts. Unfortunately for her they were enough for the UK to abide by international convention and ensure she was not made stateless.
As for Government cynicism, etc., I agree. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 1st Mar 2023 11:24 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23823
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The fact is she was born a British Citizen.
Bangladesh's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has confirmed that Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen, that she had never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh, and that she had never visited the country.
I’m not aware that there’s a tiered system of citizenship in this country. As I’ve said already, if Begum has committed offences, and if she poses a security risk, she should be given the right to a fair trial and monitored by our national security services. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 1st Mar 2023 11:39 pm |
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pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2589
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Court (Special Immigration Appeals Commission) thinks otherwise LT hence she lost her appeal....
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| 1st Mar 2023 11:53 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23823
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That’s not the strictly the case, as the decision to deprive her citizenship under the British Nationality Act 1981 Pt V s.40(2) was the Home Secretary’s, however, and not the Commission’s, whose jurisdiction is limited to investigating whether that decision was made according to proper procedure.
Describing it as a case of “great concern and difficulty”, the special immigration appeals commission (Siac) ruled that although there was “credible suspicion” that Begum was trafficked for sexual exploitation, the decision was ultimately one for the home secretary.
However, as Lord Sumption (Justice of the supreme court, 2012-18) has pointed out- “By statute, the home secretary cannot deprive a person of British citizenship if it would render them stateless. The person must have citizenship of at least one other country. When the decision was made, in 2019, Ms Begum was 19. She was a citizen of Bangladesh, but only in the most technical sense. She had provisional citizenship until she was 21, when it would lapse unless she took it up. This was because her parents were born there. But she has never been to Bangladesh. She has no links with the country. And Bangladesh has disowned her. Her Bangladeshi citizenship always was a legal fiction. Today, it is not even that. She is 23.”
And the fact remains that Begum never claimed dual citizenship with Bangladesh prior to the age of 21. As such Bangladesh continue to deny that she was ever a citizen and what’s more they are not going to grant her citizenship now. They have no legal right to do so.
So this latest development is unlikely to be the last. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 2nd Mar 2023 12:29 am |
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pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2589
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Quote:“By statute, the home secretary cannot deprive a person of British citizenship if it would render them stateless. The person must have citizenship of at least one other country
Correct
Quote:She was a citizen of Bangladesh, but only in the most technical sense.
Correct- Section 5 The Citizenship Act, 1951 (Bangladesh)
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| 2nd Mar 2023 8:36 am |
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pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2589
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Hence she lost her appeal
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| 2nd Mar 2023 8:38 am |
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Ivan
Member Since: 01 Mar 2011
Location: Malvern Worcestershire
Posts: 690
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@LT
I bet you are the sort of person who would have fought to stop Ernesto Elliott getting deported and then blame the subsequent murder on anyone but him.
You are the type of person who will blame everything on someone else rather than placing the blame where it truly lies. 2013 RR Vogue SE SDV8
2013 Freelander 2 HSE Luxury SD4
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| 2nd Mar 2023 8:41 am |
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flydive
Member Since: 21 Aug 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 1535
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^^
I believe he is the type of person with an opinion different than yours.
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| 2nd Mar 2023 8:59 am |
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JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1614
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That’s one way of putting it. 
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| 2nd Mar 2023 9:01 am |
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