The auto box was doing very strange things too When I first got stuck, the wheels went into overdrive as soon as D was engaged (presumably because all the wheels were off the ground) - tried to stop them using the brakes but the pedal went solid and the engine just revved higher. Had to drop it back to neutral to stop it Happened about 3 times.
Hmmm, sounds interesting. Certain similarities to an incident in Wales a few months back...
31st Aug 2009 11:12 pm
bigcarpchaser
Member Since: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Camberley
Posts: 2270
My EPB is fecked AGAIN. Full of sand no doubt.
When the car is clean off to the dealer once more. Perhaps they'll actually replace something this time!!
Anyone else suffering after Sunday?Welcome "Lola"
31st Aug 2009 11:24 pm
Stu
Member Since: 08 Feb 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2423
Hi Gary,
No sorry all appears to be fine our end. Drove about 50 mile in it today and it seemed ok, although the brakes are a little soft after yesterday, but my rear pads were knackered before yesterday anyway. I'm getting them done next weekend, thought I'd wait till hogmor was over with before putting new ones on.
With us going to Southampton shopping today I took the expo roof rack off so we would fit in the multi story without a problem, then went and bought a massive table from ikea and could fit it, plus the 3 kids in the car!
Still thank goodness for parents with their Mazda 2, coming to collect the kids!D3 HSE MY05 Auto
Expo Rack, Club MTR, LR Spots, A Bar, Light Guards, GNVP Sump Guard, GNVP Ladder, Cup Holders, RLD A Bar brackets. Disco3Club stickers, Aux power on Mod
31st Aug 2009 11:31 pm
Lucky.Trucker
Member Since: 15 Aug 2009
Location: Land of Sodor
Posts: 37
Hi there, may I put you right with the facts about the recovery with regards the snapped strop. Yes a D3 is heavy, 2.7 tons ex Solihull. Plus goodness how much extra for being stuck in sand/mud. The kinetic strop, yes it was a kinetic strop was rated at 8,000kgs when new. It was new, first time used in fact so I would think there was enough excess capacity to cope. When stuff like that snaps because of overloading the ends explode into a flower head when I examined it afterwards it was almost like someone had put a Stanley knife to it. In fact the stiching had failed. With hindsight it should have been done with a winch from the outset but believe me we have used kinetic equipment many times with success and it was all done by the book. I have written to the manufactures and told them until they can explain themselves to my satisfaction then I won't allow people to use their products because they aren't safe.
I hope this has made things clear.The older I get the better I was .
LuckyTrucker D3 XS 2009
Last edited by Lucky.Trucker on 2nd Sep 2009 10:12 pm. Edited 1 time in total
1st Sep 2009 12:22 am
Stu
Member Since: 08 Feb 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2423
Thanks for the low down. I must admit from looking at the video it didn't look like a kinetic strop. Hence I thought the speed of the recovery was silly. Can you let us know what make of strop it was so that we are all forewarned!
Thanks again for a great day, the marshalls did a great job.D3 HSE MY05 Auto
Expo Rack, Club MTR, LR Spots, A Bar, Light Guards, GNVP Sump Guard, GNVP Ladder, Cup Holders, RLD A Bar brackets. Disco3Club stickers, Aux power on Mod
1st Sep 2009 12:47 am
truffles
Member Since: 17 May 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 13
The make of the Kinetic Sstrop was Damar, a well known leading manufacturer.In my 4x4 every weekend is a dirty one!
1st Sep 2009 2:22 am
Willy Eckerslike
Member Since: 12 Jan 2009
Location: N Yorks
Posts: 1612
Some questions, how much did the winches have to pull to get the D3 out in your estimation, and what safety factor does Damar use for their strops.
My guesstimation would have been: D3 fully loaded 3 ton, vehicle mired to it's body 300% of Load weight, 3 x 3 = 9ton. then add some safety, so minimum 12ton swl.
But then again this is only my opinion I wasn't there, just an example of how how I would have worked it.Club Pie n Pea
One life....Fish it
D3 Gone but not forgotten
Club Men of Oak
Club Walnut sniffers
D4 Van owner
Ents long lost Uncle
1st Sep 2009 6:55 am
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
It took a D1 with a winch (double line pull?), anchored by 2 x D3's plus a Dakar type modded RR doing a double line pull to free Wilma... Disco 5 HSE Lux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peyiqaJrmMU
Last edited by DiscoStu on 1st Sep 2009 9:35 am. Edited 1 time in total
1st Sep 2009 8:26 am
AndrewS Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10439
Lucky.Trucker wrote:
Hi there, may I put you right with the facts about the recovery with regards the snapped strop. Yes a D3 is heavy, 2.7 tons ex Solihull. Plus goodness how much extra for being stuck in sand/mud. The kinetic strop, yes it was a kinetic strop was rated at 8,000kgs when new. It was new, first time used in fact so I would think there was enough excess capacity to cope. When stuff like that snaps because of overloading the ends explode into a flower head when I examined it afterwards it was almost like someone had put a Stanley knife to it. In fact the stiching had failed. With hindsight it should have been done with a winch from the outset but believe me we have used kinetic equipment many times with success and it was all done by the book. I have written to the manufactures and told them until they can explain themselves to my satisfaction then I won't allow people to use there products because they aren't safe.
I hope this has made things clear.
Nothing to do with what happened on this event. I do a lot of crane work and know that the weave of the webbing is designed not to stretch (especially under load). I presume that the Kinetic Strop is made from Nylon that will stretch. So a manufacturer is producing a strop that is designed not to stretch from a material that will stretch I could be very wrong though In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
1st Sep 2009 9:34 am
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
It does seem like a strange rope - looks like a strop, but is kinetic? In any case, thanks for getting me out
bobbycrispbox wrote:
Hmmm, sounds interesting. Certain similarities to an incident in Wales a few months back...
There are a couple of points that it makes that I thought were interesting in comparison to Sunday:
1 - Don't use if the vehicle is very bogged in. - If I remeber correctly all 4 wheels were off the ground?
2 - Lay a blanket over the strop so if it does go bang the energy is absorbed and it drops to the floor. I saw this happen with winching but not with the strops.
3 - The recovery vehicle moves off at normal take-off speed in first gear. Accelerate very gently and keep the speed constant. You can look at the video and judge this for yourself!
I'm no expert in recovery but I think if the above had taken place the situation might have been different, however as previously stated the marshalls did a great job.
Also been looking at Kinetic strops and the most I can see is a 20% stretch. If so then on a 10m strop the maximun is only going to be 12m and at the speed the D2 was going that would have only taken a split second to over stretch the stop.
I think we all learned from the event, which is one positive outcome.D3 HSE MY05 Auto
Expo Rack, Club MTR, LR Spots, A Bar, Light Guards, GNVP Sump Guard, GNVP Ladder, Cup Holders, RLD A Bar brackets. Disco3Club stickers, Aux power on Mod
1st Sep 2009 10:09 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I was not there (well I was but the wrong end of the lane to see) but I think the speed is hard to judge on the video, it is a bit misleading. The car accelerates and stops in just over 1.5 car lengths.
Surely the webbing attached to each end will be much stronger than the kinetic material in the middle as it takes all the wear etc. It sounds like the loop came apart, which would seem quite odd as surely the stitching on a double overlap would be stronger than the single strap.
Regardless I feel sorry for the guy who's car it is, but who pays for that by the way ?. Accidents happen, it's just one of those things. Next time I go on a event, I am going to stick with DG, the way he moved his car out of the way in the nick of time is impressive
1st Sep 2009 11:19 am
Willy Eckerslike
Member Since: 12 Jan 2009
Location: N Yorks
Posts: 1612
By my calculations the strop was travelling at 471mph when it hit the D2, thats if the strop was 100% efficient regarding being 20% elastic, so even at 50% efficient its still 235.5mph now attach a 1kg shackle, The question is would you sit behind a windscreen and feel safe.
At 10mph with 2500kg car and a 10m 20% stretch 8t strop, the stretch should have been 1.67m with a pull of 3.5 tonnes.Club Pie n Pea
One life....Fish it
D3 Gone but not forgotten
Club Men of Oak
Club Walnut sniffers
D4 Van owner
Ents long lost Uncle
1st Sep 2009 11:22 am
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What happened to the bikini 
When I first got stuck, the wheels went into overdrive as soon as D was engaged (presumably because all the wheels were off the ground) - tried to stop them using the brakes but the pedal went solid and the engine just revved higher. Had to drop it back to neutral to stop it 
Happened about 3 times.
I could be very wrong though 
Could not move the brake pedal for love nor money 
