Member Since: 14 Apr 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 98
John C wrote:
Does the FBH have its own temperature sensor, or does it work off the same one as is used to display the OAT on the dash. I've now got a severe case of FBH-paranoia... Temperature was 4 degrees according to dash display but quickly went to 5 degrees as I drove up the road. FBH hadn't fired up, and I'm just hoping it was just above the starting temperature....
Mine did exactly the same thing last night on the way home. The Temperature was +4 degrees according to the display but the FBH didn't fire up from cold. It worked fine this morning though even with the Econ button pressed I agree about the drying effect of the Air Con I am just too tight to run it all the time!.
If I read the comments rightly it is the Climate Control rather than the Econ button that affects the start up.D4 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
I took the fuse out, disconnected the plug and did all the other things suggested, but it didn't fix it. Car was in with the dealer yesterday who removed a number of fault codes on the FBH and tested all the components individually (wasn't cold enough to see it working). Anyway, I'm now pretty confident it will work when it's cold enough. Clearly, there are some faults that can't be removed by just unplugging. I had a few dodgy starts, and a duff battery needing jump starting a few weeks back which caused all sorts of electrical gremlins, so perhaps it caused the lock-out.
Hope that helps,
John2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
9th Dec 2009 10:36 am
stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
Some general musings on the topic.
Firstly I seem to recall that sometimes it took longer than 30 seconds or so for the fuse-out reset to work. It has to be worth trying at least once for 5 minutes (go and make a coffee and it's not time wasted ).
Secondly, and a more generalised comment. Webasto recommend that you run their FBHs every other month throughout the year to keep the fuel fresh, the parts lubricated and sludge free etc. Obviously in the D3 unless you have the timer modification this is pretty much impossible when not living on permafrost.
Please consider treating your car to a quality diesel injector cleaner additive when the temperature plummets, to allow the FBH to de-varnish, clean and unsludge itself. I suspect that a tank of one of the "Super" diesel brands would probably be adequate too (and they smell nicer when the FBH fires up).
Thirdly, for those with timers or other equipment to fire it up in advance of getting in the car, it's beyond an irony that the time you need the FBH is also the time that a weak battery starts to succumb to the cold. Low volts will cause the FBH to shut down, as will low fuel. It's about this time of year that I find myself bench-charging the battery to get it into peak capacity for the cold weeks ahead.
Finally like anything, a quick check of the system can reap rewards. Check that the exhaust is free of a mud plug, check the fuse (and try a new fuse even if it looks all right; some fuses I've seen have a soldered centre point, and this can go dry joint leaving it unconnected but looking OK). Check the condition of the fuel hose into the heater to make sure it's not chaffed or kinked; no one likes the extra heat of an engine bay fire after all. Make sure the fuel tank is full as you attempt to get it working after a reset; the more fuel in there the less work a slightly gummed up pump has to do to start the nice pump-cleaning fuel flowing again.
If the reset trick doesn't work after the third time, assume there's a very good reason why the heater won't fire and seek professional help. Many of our advertiser/supporters have the kit required to tell your FBH to re-prime itself, so that may be worth a try before heading off mortgage in hand to your stealers. Otherwise you may have a failed injector, failed glow plug, failed pump etc etc Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
9th Dec 2009 5:11 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
Great post 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
9th Dec 2009 10:25 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
Well, after having the fault codes cleared on a recent trip to Duckworths, my FBH fired up with the most enormous cloud of smoke - kind of like starting an old series LR - this then calmed to a steady stream from the exhaust 8)
Anyway, it seemed to run for a couple of minutes and then stopped. However I'm kicking myself for not having enough fuel in the tank (only 60 to go), and also it was 5 degrees, so perhaps it was borderline.
I always use decent fuel, but on the off-chance that it was all sludged up a bit, I've stuck some decent Redex in with a full tank of fuel so I can check tomorrow morning.
Clearly there are some fault codes removing the power/fuse can't solve, because at one point, I left it with the fuse out overnight.2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
10th Dec 2009 10:39 am
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
Just an update on this which may help people trying to get theirs to work...
I filled up with 50 litres of Optimax yesterday and stuck a load of Redex Fuel System cleaner in the tank. I don't know if that will do any good, but imagined that it might help clean out the FBH a bit.
This morning I fired up the car and basically the FBH fired up and then stopped - if you're really bored and fancy watching a video of it (without sound because I had the mic off ) you can see it here. You can clearly see it struggling to start - like an old series Landy.
Anyway, hoping that it was just clogged somewhere from not being run for the last few months, I did the usual (power down, let it got to sleep, remove fuse, wait ten minutes, replace fuse) restart, this managed to get the FBH to burn for longer, but it still stopped. Anyway after four attempts (making sure I had Mrs C's car on-hand close by to jump start me if I wore out my nice new battery ), I finally managed to get it going. On each re-start there was decreasingly less smoke, and on my fourth attempt, it finally stayed on and then ran nicely for half an hour - no (well maybe minimal) smoke, just a steady warm stream coming from the exhaust. I left it on the drive for 1/2 an hour, so that it would run for as long as possible and hopefully clean itself a bit using the Redex (no science there, just a guess), - I imagined it would cut out sooner if the car was moving and the engine heating up by itself.
Anyway, not sure how much science there is in all that, but it's worked, and it fired up cleanly, and continued to run when I ran it a few minutes ago.
Hopefully I've fixed it, I don't want to have to spend 1.5hrs every morning warming up the car for a 15 minute jouney to the office
Hope that helps someone
Big thanks to Stapldm for his advice across various posts 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
11th Dec 2009 12:53 pm
stapldm
Member Since: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Swine Town
Posts: 2330
John, but I merely stand on the shoulders of others, mostly on this forum, who have provided me with an excellent education on the subject
I'm sure that my car not having the built in FBH timer feature that the brochure promised at delivery didn't in the least get under my skin and prompt some serious research
Looking at your video, I'd actually assume you had air in the fuel line, as it seemed to stop and start blowing smoke quite quickly. Nicely fixed, and a good example of how determination can win the day Dr. Ian Malcolm:
"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
Transgenic tomato anyone?
11th Dec 2009 6:03 pm
woody32 Site Sponsor
Member Since: 11 Mar 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 3551
Anybody stripped one down yet, (FBH that is) Wanted D4s non runners pm for competitive price.
IID Pro MV License - D3/4 RRS - Enabling, Updates,Transmission flushing.
Mobile or workshop,PM for details.
11th Dec 2009 6:23 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
stapldm wrote:
... I'd actually assume you had air in the fuel line, as it seemed to stop and start blowing smoke quite quickly. ...
Thanks for the message!
However, maybe I spoke too soon. On leaving the office, I got the same problem as in the video. Tried restarting - without removing the fuse, but allowing the car to go to sleep in the mean-time three times, before I bottled-out for fear of flattening the battery... Got smokey starts - decreasingly smokey, but only ran for about 30 seconds before stopping. Will try again in the morning when I have another car to jump start from or trickle charge if I run it flat.
Maybe it's still sludged up, or maybe there's air in the fuel line. Any idea which one of the pipes in is the fuel line so I can check?
Thanks again2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
11th Dec 2009 7:05 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
FBH (on a D3) is to speed up engine warm up in cold weather. It has nothing to do with the cabin heating or climate control other than the fact that the sooner the engine water is hot the sooner the heater will give out heat..
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 7:54 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
Thanks - I'm not sure I follow... FFBH - fuel fired booster heater?
When the FFBH runs, it warms the engine/water quicker therefore you get cabin heat quicker when the FBH is running - yes? Without it running, it takes longer to warm the cabin? 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
12th Dec 2009 8:12 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
If you are talking about the standard FBH fitted to LR D3s then the following discription is 100% accurate.
Albourneboy wrote:
The sole purpose of the FBH is to assist the very efficient diesel engine to warm up faster in cold weather by heating the engine coolant.
It's not there as an auxiliary cabin heater though obviously, if it's heating the coolant, this will benefit the aircon system. Nothing you do to the aircon should have any effect on the FBH.
It will (if it's working correctly) fire up automatically when you start the engine AND the OAT is 5 deg C and below AND coolant temperature is 75 deg C or below. Once coolant temp goes over 75 deg OR OAT rises to 6 deg or over, (whichever happens sooner) the FBH will shut down.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 8:18 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
It's not 100% right, the FBH is primarily speeding up cabin heating (via coolant obviously) not to warm the engine up quickly. The efficiency of a modern diesel means it doesn't produce much excess heat and it also doesn't have to run warm to reach efficiency. The FBH will also switch on again if the coolant cools again, again purely for cabin heat.
On the Freelander 1, the TD4 was fitted with the same type of FBH, but in 2002 (I think), they opted for heater elements for cost reasons I believe. The heater elements were again purely for cabin heating.
12th Dec 2009 8:30 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
I disagree . Standby while I search for evidence !!.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
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Temperature was 4 degrees according to dash display but quickly went to 5 degrees as I drove up the road. FBH hadn't fired up, and I'm just hoping it was just above the starting temperature....
).
), I finally managed to get it going. On each re-start there was decreasingly less smoke, and on my fourth attempt, it finally stayed on and then ran nicely for half an hour - no (well maybe minimal) smoke, just a steady warm stream coming from the exhaust. I left it on the drive for 1/2 an hour, so that it would run for as long as possible and hopefully clean itself a bit using the Redex (no science there, just a guess), - I imagined it would cut out sooner if the car was moving and the engine heating up by itself.
Got smokey starts - decreasingly smokey, but only ran for about 30 seconds before stopping. Will try again in the morning when I have another car to jump start from or trickle charge if I run it flat.
