Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I have the evidence I was the first person to get the timer on the Freelander 1 with the BMW 2.0 engine and I had Webasto there to help the dealer who had never done one before. The sole reason it was fitted was for cabin heat. It was also then offered as a cost option on the Disco 2 as well for comfort.
That's why they are called supplementary heaters, as they supplement the engine heat until it takes over.
EDIT: By the way they are fitted to loads of other cars as well, BWW, Jag, Fiats, Peugeot etc.
Last edited by countrywide on 12th Dec 2009 9:50 pm. Edited 2 times in total
12th Dec 2009 9:47 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
Yes cool but are we not talking about the standard FBH fitted to the LR D3 ?.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 9:50 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Yes we are, it was the same in the Freelander (not Can bus controlled though) and the same model is used in other cars.
A modern diesel doesn't need the coolant temperatures to reach the level to heat the interior in order to reach efficiency.
12th Dec 2009 9:53 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
"The FFBH system supplements vehicle heater performance while the engine is running, and is transparent to the driver."
http://conno.org/disco3/d3ffbh.pdf2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
12th Dec 2009 9:53 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
From page 127 of the D3 2008.5 MY user manual:
When the engine is started in cold weather, the
auxiliary heater is automatically switched on to
provide extra heat to help warm up the engine.
If this occurs, exhaust fumes from the heater
may be seen coming from under the bonnet.
Call it a draw ?.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 10:24 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Yes, to warm up the cabin. What is the purpose of heating the engine quickly, it doesn't need to be that hot to run efficient. That's the whole point, diesels aren't like petrol.
I would suggest you e-mail Land Rover and Webasto and they will confirm why it is there .
12th Dec 2009 10:30 pm
John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
Only one way to settle this...
2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
12th Dec 2009 10:33 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Or look at the press release on the Webasto site, which states why it is fiited and mentions the Disco, RR and Freelander as having it OEM fitted for cabin heat
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
The reason the D3 needs a FBH is that the engine would take ages to get to full running temp in cold weather without it.
Cabin heaters (which I guess are what you are referring to) heat the water and circulate it round the heater matrix, NOT the engine block, they normally run the cabin heater fans as well and are activated by timers or remote control. The D3 system does none of this.
Even with the GSM mod, popular here, the FBH still only heats the water in the engine coolant jacket.
I only popped in for a quick look round, not for a ruck
I'm off.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 10:39 pm
London Lad
Member Since: 27 May 2008
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 505
countrywide wrote:
Or look at the press release on the Webasto site, which states why it is fiited and mentions the Disco, RR and Freelander as having it OEM fitted for cabin heat
As your link says, two different things Aux heaters and parking heaters. The parking heater has never been implemented on the D3 although I do believe the settings for it did show in the very first software version.
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You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience !
12th Dec 2009 10:44 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
The effficient working temperature of a modern diesel is well below the temperature required to heat the cabin, so why would a D3 have a FBH to heat the engine quicker unless it was for the cabin. You would be burning fuel in the FBH for no reason as it would not improve efficiency.
All cars cabin heaters go through the engine block as it is a simplest way to do it in a car. It's only designed for max 60 minutes (although the clock is set for 30 as standard), so they are not cabin heaters as you think, Cabin heaters for stationary use, use hot air and don't go through the heater matrix as it would be a waste of energy.
I would read the Webasto press release as it will answer all your questions about the modern diesel engine and the requirements for auxilary or supplmentary heaters
I am not having a ruck, but I have used these on several cars inc my BMW 525D and have spoken to the Webasto rep several times.
12th Dec 2009 10:49 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
London Lad wrote:
countrywide wrote:
Or look at the press release on the Webasto site, which states why it is fiited and mentions the Disco, RR and Freelander as having it OEM fitted for cabin heat
As your link says, two different things Aux heaters and parking heaters. The parking heater has never been implemented on the D3 although I do believe the settings for it did show in the very first software version
They are the same thing, in auxilary heating mode it supplements the engine heat, in parking mode it doesn't have the engine, but it is all for the cabin heating.
You seem to be confused over the two functions of the same unit.
12th Dec 2009 10:54 pm
philhunt
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: MI5 not 9 to 5
Posts: 1761
countrywide wrote:
I have the evidence........The sole reason it was fitted was for cabin heat.
(Don't dispute your experience in this matter but) In which case, why on the D3 does it (un-modded i.e. without a timer/remote/gsm) only fire up when the outside temperature is around 5C or less and the engine temperature is also less than whatever? Surely the car occupants are still looking for cabin heat quickly when the outside temperature is 6C and quite a range above?Clubs Mantec, Tasmods, LEDS, AT2s on 18s, Maxxis Bighorns on 17s, Remote FBH, BAS. ReMap, BSS., RLD Personalised SWP., Safari Snorkel, Faultmate, Three Musketeers & MUD
13th Dec 2009 12:28 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
Fuel economy apparently, it's not environmental to be running a seperate diesel heater, which uses fuel unless it is cold enough to warrant it. i.e for frost etc
13th Dec 2009 10:23 am
Spooky
Member Since: 02 Jun 2009
Location: Swindon, Wilts
Posts: 1013
Hmmm ... just wondering ... is there any way to adjust his minimum temperature to, say, 10 degress ... Regards,
Mick
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