Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73092
ruggedpeak wrote:
Yes Derek. I'm annoyed. I have been looking at late model low mileage D4's for some months and decided to hold off as I thought prices would fall when the D5 was launched.
My folks knew about the D5 but back in Aug/Sept there was absolutely no real info available and with the moronic half year production gap they jumped into one of the last few Landmarks that fitted what they wanted spec-wise. Having now seen more & more of the D5 (incl my pics from Les Comes) they definitely think they made the right move. That's their third D3/4 (after I suggested they look at it in 06) and what's more important the colour is growing on me.
4th Dec 2016 12:43 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
But, in 5 years time when we are still waiting for "the new Defender", will so many people still be so interest in an expensive brand, where the reputation for rough off roading and expiditions is starting to become a distant memory? Will people still be so interested if Land Rover effectively fills the space vacated by Rover in The 1950's & 60's! 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
4th Dec 2016 12:44 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
The problem is that niche underpins the entire brand. Right now they will sell huge numbers I have no doubt. The problem is that the brands are underpinned by that idea of these vehicles being capable of crossing the Darien Gap or whatever. They have progressively moved away from this. What happens is that 5 years or whatever down the road they cease to the vehicles of choice for the glitterati etc who move with the trends. At the same time as we see now, the brand has no proper off road vehicle in its range, so in being trendy it has destroyed its heritage and become just another car marker. Either they will end up like Porsche, just another volume car maker, or struggle. How long before Land Rover try and make "normal" cars?
Either way the Land Rover of old is on the way out - it may survive as a business but I fear it may not over time as every man and his dog offers the chaverati a 4x4 crossover shopping car - even Bentley. In that market surely a key differentiator is that "niche" of proper adventure and off road. To try and paraphrase the great Sage, Jeremiah Clarkson, when reviewing the D3 "I have a watch on my wrist that says it will go to 200 metres. I will never go to 200 metres but it is reassuring when I wash my hands that it can". LR are deleting the 200m bit from their watch - and then its just a watch.Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
4th Dec 2016 12:47 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73092
Red Merle wrote:
Perfect! 8) I wouldn't mind knowing where my next D4 was coming from!
If it's like the silver one on the right (and my drive) it'll be ~30k miles, garaged most of its life, NEVER offroaded or abused by lugging a tintent around, FLRSH, wanting for nothing and (touch wood) utterly reliable. The latter is a strange concept for a LR but I'm sure something I can live with!!
4th Dec 2016 12:47 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
DSL wrote:
ruggedpeak wrote:
Yes Derek. I'm annoyed. I have been looking at late model low mileage D4's for some months and decided to hold off as I thought prices would fall when the D5 was launched.
My folks knew about the D5 but back in Aug/Sept there was absolutely no real info available and with the moronic half year production gap they jumped into one of the last few Landmarks that fitted what they wanted spec-wise. Having now seen more & more of the D5 (incl my pics from Les Comes) they definitely think they made the right move. That's their third D3/4 (after I suggested they look at it in 06) and what's more important the colour is growing on me.
There were 2 run out D4 models, the Landmark and the cheaper one (can't remember what it was called). A dealer told me the cheaper D4 sold out almost immediately, and there were (a few months back) only a few Landmarks left. I think that is telling.Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
4th Dec 2016 12:48 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
B16 KJR wrote:
Personally, I think that until it becomes available to drive and the motoring press etc have had a chance to 'try it out' nobody apart from LR engineers, can say if its a 'proper' off-road vehicle or not. But I didn't buy my current D3 as an 'off-road' vehicle, I bought it primarily as a tow car as did many others I suspect.
I remember when the D3 was launched, all the old school motoring journalists kept saying that it wasn't a 'proper' Discovery as it didn't have a diff-lock etc, it had some stupid electronic traction control and therefore could never be as good off-road as the old 'proper' D1 & D2 cars, ............ really ?
Also bear in mind, that the Dealers haven't been on the factory 'familiarisation' course yet, so they know very little about the car, even the guys doing the Dealership presentation's couldn't answer all the questions. I look forward to actually getting one out on the road and driving it, 'the proof of the pudding' as they say
Those of us that didn't like the original spy shots were told to wait until the genuine photos came out.
When those didn't look any better, it was said that we should see it in the metal.
Now it looks pretty grim in the metal, we shouldn't judge it until we've driven one.
If we drive one and the driving experience isn't good enough to make up for the looks and the practicality, will we need to wait until we've owned one for three years before passing judgement? 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 4th Dec 2016 12:53 pm. Edited 1 time in total
4th Dec 2016 12:52 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
The new Defender will be launched for LRs 70th birthday, I'm pretty sure of it.
My D5 will getting moved on in 2019, so I will see if LR have anything worth buying. My name is down on Jaguars list for their I-Pace. I think electric will be the way forward for me and LRs effort will no doubt be badge a Range Rover and priced through the roof, the D5 SE is about as high I can go, so this will probably be my last LR product, unless the new Defender is appealing.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
4th Dec 2016 12:53 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73092
Don't hold your breath, if they can sell all the D5s they can build o the Yummy Mummy why would they make less money selling new Defenders to those daft enough (in their eyes) not to get a D5?
4th Dec 2016 1:57 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1257
/If the defender comes out what would be the cheapest to top of range and as most overlap into other models.Can't see it being less than 30k as l/R are not interested in 20/30k range anymore left it to others why ?....And with options probably 50k?....
4th Dec 2016 4:30 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
They certainly won't be competing direct with the Isuzu's of this world!
I'd suggest Toyota Land Cruiser pricing, around £35-55,000 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
4th Dec 2016 4:52 pm
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
We spent an hour crawling over the D5 today and... Im torn
Lovely car and I emphise the word car, the cabin is lovely and exactly what I want (a RangeRover) I like the look externally too, especially upfront it looks really aggressive front on. The technology is nice and modern but nothing cutting edge in design that could see. Storage is good, cup holders ok and I liked the sunroof and new blinds. Driving position for me seemed fine (I'm 6'5") and could see the whole dash binnacle for once unlike on the D3/4 where the steering wheel blocks it. The 2nd row seemed roomy for the kids and they said it was comfy.
We then got to the rear and oh dear
Its so small! No amount of the LR reps quoting numbers could get around how the design fundamentally restricts the space. The numbers around height at the rear are external and include the sharks tail which must be 2times the height or more than the D4s probably on purpose to keep the external heights similar.
The boot opening is drastically smaller and the rear doors huge, the dogs will have to have their heads pushed down as the tailgate slowly closes and then they can put them up as the rear tailgate forms part of the boot space its so deep.
The activity bench is pants and everyone agreed,you could tell they were sick of the question around why they dropped the split tailgate and could not defend it. We spent a lot of time sizing it up and playing with the space in an attempt find positives but its was tough going we did some test role play to see the difference here is the ice cream eating position comparison:
As you can see the height is a lot lower and the kids had to bunch together tight to all sit on the bench, look at the gap between them on my D4 outside. It IS a lot smaller
As I said at the start I'm torn, the looks, cabin and tech are all good but the boot space and practicality is much less that the D4 and going to make it a very difficult decision. Dealers going to work on deal for a First Edition with all the accessories I need (dog guard, load decider,roof bars, tow bar, side steps) I just need to send him a build off the configurator so ill see what it comes out like but I fear it will be too much to swallow for the practicality issues.
A sad day really, the Discovery is no longer my perfect car MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
4th Dec 2016 5:40 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73092
Those pics show it all.
4th Dec 2016 5:46 pm
mbso
Member Since: 16 Nov 2014
Location: Liguria
Posts: 20
Disco5: "very beautiful... But More car than a "Discovery"
I'm sorry for my bad English; we just visited the Italian "Motor Show" in Bologna,
Visiting the Land Rover stand, for watching the all new Waited Disco5.
Well, the best definition for this new car, is made by wife... "very beautiful... But More car than a "Discovery".
We see the disco5 "still" in the stand, we can't try it, in the display and ride Land Rover/Jaguar area, there was RRS, Evoque Cabrio and Discovery Sport.
Very Beautiful, more luxury suv car more RRS than Disco, beautiful But...
For me:
- inside is smaller then our disco4, the space for people in second and third row is smaller... You could tell me what you want, but for me is smaller !!!
- The tailgate door, for me, just for me, is a mess, I prefer without any doubt the disco4 tailgate.
- More luxury an less practical than Disco4
- 4 or 6pot ? For me and for this Kind of car the 4pot is a non sense, is like buying a Diesel Porsche Cayenne . If you want and can buy a Porsche, buy it, but not diesel
- I wait a real driving test for say the last word.
PS: talking about something very important and useful...
If you are flying with your parachute or you are in the Californian sea with your surf, and you want fold your seats with your expensive "automatic folding optional" with your mobile app... First you have to call someone to go to and in your car and... Move, push ahead the driver seat and then folding your seat....
The Land Rover guy tried, and system stopped because the driver seat was too back!!!
Why you spend for this optional and there isn't an automatic system for move on the driver seat ?
Bye guys... Greetings from the Liguriann see(D4 MY2011)
Done:
- GVIF and reversing Camera
- FBH with remote control
- Osram LedFog101 with Cornering lights
Last edited by mbso on 4th Dec 2016 7:00 pm. Edited 1 time in total
4th Dec 2016 6:54 pm
Big Al
Member Since: 20 Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 143
Since no one knows anyone, or seems, to have been involved in LRs customer clinics for the D5, just who did they invite to these, if they ran any at all. It does appear that no one challenged Gerrys proposed design (obviously they seem to revere him as some kind of god), but how in that case did they come up with so many compromises in the design?
I agree with various comments above, and whilst they come up with a pretty car, which seems to be a RangeRover a Sport+ they do seem to have lost the soul of what Discovery is, and is used for.
Interesting I checked out a couple of competitor products and the new XC90 seems to be incredibly similar in ALL proportions regarding seating in the rear and wondering if it shares the same platform as the new D5. The seats look remarkably similar too, and also seem to have shallow bolster and seat Backs, like the D5. The only difference is their 2nd and 3rd tow seats was more comfortable.
Similarly, and I know I was shot down in flames a couple of months back for considering the New Ford Explorer is also the same car in a very slight guise, I still feel it's yet another sibling on the sme platform.
Perhaps Gerry's even pimped out between LR, Ford and Volvo (PAG maybe?)
4th Dec 2016 7:00 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
At my dealership when I commented on the extra width the salesman was at pains to tell me its on a FFRR chassis.
They seriously need to rein in (aka sack) that McGovern bloke before he and other spreadsheet numpties wreck the company. Why the are you putting a Disco on a RR chassis? This is just marketing gloss, seems to have more in common with flogging lipstick and mascara than cars.
Getting Posh Spice in was the beginning of the end.
Remember this? Watch the first 10 seconds or so. This is what 90% of the world's population think of when you say "Land Rover" or " "Discovery". The marketing team at Jeep are wetting themselves with laughter that McGovern and co are destroying one of the most powerful brand images in the world.
Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
annoyed. I have been looking at late model low mileage D4's for some months and decided to hold off as I thought prices would fall when the D5 was launched. 
